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New Re: In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"...
Hey CRC, have you read Mann's Joseph tetralogy? I recall it as somewhat ponderous in the opening pages (I speak, of course, of the standard English translation by H.T. Lowe-Porter and not the German original), but quite enchanting once you settled into its rhythms.

In my youth I was a great admirer of Thomas Mann, and contrived to acquire and read almost all of his novels in 1971 and the stragglers the following year, and although I may never read Buddenbrooks again I've come back to The Magic Mountain at approximately seven-year intervals since, and even marched through Doctor Faustus once more at around this time last decade. It is said of Mann's German that some of its nuances don't make it intact through Lowe-Porter's sieve (one critic said something to the effect of "Mann's ironically draped velvet becomes staid tweed"), but--possibly because long familiarity has accustomed me to the original translator's stately cadences--I was appalled by the idiomatic American English into which the book was re-rendered a few years ago by one John Woods.

Anyway...it's not quite time for Swiss Alps again, so perhaps I'll pick up the tetralogy again (I think I may have read it last in 1980) and see how the timeless tale is holding up...

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New No no no, sorry, I have to confess...
...any rag-tag impression of "Bildung" I'm able to, uh, for lack of a better word vorgaukeln rests almost enirely on having read lots of cheap contemporary entertainment "literature" on the one hand, and on having read, at the most, a bit about "real" literature on the other.

So no, no Thomas Mann... Unless he wrote Die Blechtrommel...? Naah, that must have been Günther Grass, wasn't it? Whoever wrote it, I read that once; but that was so long ago, I have almost no idea what the heck it was even about! Oh yeah, and I may have tried to start Die Buddenbrooks once, but...

But, hey, here's a twist: If I disappeared now and came back to life in a hundred years, I probably would have some "real" Bildung -- because by then, so much of the contemporary (now, not in a hundred years) entertainment "literature" I've read will have been upgraded to "real" literature that I'll have read lots and lots of that, too... So I'm basically just a hundred years ahead of my time! :-)


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New You might be a bit optimistic...
in your assessment (so much of the contemporary...entertainment "literature" I've read will have been upgraded to "real" literature) of the "classics futures" market. Probably a greater number of today's prominent literary names will have been devalued than entertainers (or writers of what Nabokov was fond of calling "topical trash") elevated to the pantheon. In other words, and confining my examples here solely to English-language fiction, I think it likelier that, say, Martin Amis will have been forgotten by 2103 than that John Grisham will be remembered--no disrespect intended toward the former and a couple of truckloads for the latter.

Anyone care to nominate some presently elevated literary lions for extinction? And which of the humble entertainers might our great-grandchildren regard as the Dickens of his day?

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New not a lot but here is a few nominations
George MacDonald Frasier, Hans Helmut Kirst, Kurt Vonnegut, James Clavell, Murphy and Shapir. The last will give a gulliver'd travels look at american society.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Carpe Dieu
New Second on Vonnegut
And Zippy - definitely Zippy. Will have to ponder the rest..

100 years? Well.. if it ain't a radioactive melange, Gaia having dispensed with the un-housebroken perps (or perhaps via a passing buddy.. Gort the Cleansing Comet?) - I'm certain [!] that JS, Mozart et al will be around; maybe the Gita will supplant other remnants of past follies in man-made artificiofacts - but only for the odd-%.

Actually.. it's hardest yet, to make such a projection; who before us-and-Alamogordo ever had to seriously ponder the possibility of Lights Out? AutoAnimalKingdomcide? ..the loss of JS, Mozart and a few - now That would be the Unimaginable Loss to the Cosmos. THAT is too horible for more than a moment's lugubrious contemplation ... :( :(

Species come and species go, but not die Zauberflute.





As Horkheimer, the astronomer on PBS says -
Keep Looking ^Up^ !!
New Not certain about Vonnegut
--but it has been so long since I read him (and he isn't presently represented in my not inconsiderable library) that sheer lack of resolution may dim my judgment here.

Off the top of my head, and again confining my consideration to works in English from the postwar period forward, the names Nabokov, Pynchon, Bellow (each for entirely different reasons) come first to mind. John Updike will be remembered for his magnificently-crafted short stories more than for his novels (although conceivably for his criticism more than either--but no, I don't think that a successor society that values critical thinking of any sort is in the cards); Alice Munro as well, if the short story is still valued--in which case we might be able to shoehorn Tobias Wolff into literary history. If the muses are fair, then the novels of Ward Just (Jack Gance, The Echo House) will still be in print. It would be a shame if Robertson Davies' Canadian version of magical realism did not survive another hundred years of solitude. Lawrence Durrell's ravishing Alexandria Quartet may not make it: glittering as its surface is, it's one of those books (well, four of those books) that yields up every particle of its charm upon first reading, holding nothing back for subsequent consideration (mind you, that charm is vast:
"Clea, you should shelter."

But she only pressed closer, shaking her head like someone drugged with sleep, or perhaps by the soft explosion of kisses which burst like bubbles of oxygen in the patient blood. I shook her softly, and she whispered: "I am too fastidious to die with a lot of people in a shelter like an old rats' nest. Let us go to bed together and ignore the loutish reality of the world."

[We have been waiting at this point for the principals in this passage to for-god's-sake-do-the-dirty-you-fools for about 900 pages in the paperback edition]).
All this is the very surface, the windblown foam of that sea of contemporary or near-contemporary authors whose salt-scent I hope to reach the nostrils of the next century.

And of those who work below the salt, whose Grisham-like sales should not be held against them, whom posterity should forgive the size of their advances and royalty checks (adjusted for hyperinflation)? Oh, hell, we're talking a hundred fucking years! They could think of Tom-fucking-Clancy the way we think of Anthony Trollope! Nevertheless, I'll make this prediction: if Poe has lasted to the present day, then people will still be reading Stephen King when he and we are dead and gone. Much of what he writes is not far removed from trash, but its execution consistently partakes of honest craft: he labors very carefully over his prose, never, so far as I've been able to detect, cheating or taking a dishonorable shortcut. The negative here is John Irving's 1981(?) novel The World According to Garp, which I admit I haven't glanced at since I read it newly-published, and which was on the surface technically impressive throughout, but which somehow oozed dishonesty from every timber.

My $2 worth (adjusted for inflation)...

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Ah yessss.. readin Clea around the swimmin pool..
The lengthiest foreplay since skimming through dirty books like the OT for delicious specimens to attempt to emulate. (The pubic hair is always sleeker where there are Minarets and good opium about..)

Don't forget the Other Munro, "HH" aka Saki and.. good ol W.S.Maugham! - The Verger particularly apt re a certain [courtesy of our own Gryg]

Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- Andrew Grygus

[or my fav piece of cack]
"My favorite is 'writing hard core C to create slick tight code'."
-- Bill Gates

Imagine... IF Billy's Mommy hadn't staked the nascent weasel to a free Intro to the hoary Suits at IBM (and prolly crawled Herself! the mean streets, for her antsy spawn.. in search of that freebie exact-ripoff of Digital Research CP/M - whence the verbatim kluge which was re-dubbed MSDOS 1.0.permanent.Alpha.. and begat the longest uninterrupted theft of Real intellectuals' property in Bizdroid History -

ie the perfect [What-If We Had All Been Spared] concluding sentences of The Verger:

My goodness, all this business achievement and.. you never learned to read ?!
Who knows what! you might be today, had you done so..

Reply: "That's easy - the Verger of St. Peters, Neville".

As to your unfortunate lapse in the continuing saga of Kurt: HTF can ya find out What Murica Be Just Now [cha cha & cha] - *without* his regular up-dates? Huh?
Get thee to a coffee/book store O mapless one!

I can't fill-in so many as your list.. still pondering whether the Question is self-cancelling; if a pron star prances in the forest and there is no one to leer? is it pron? If there are no readers in 100 Years post-Prescott-Bushie Empire -?- well ...


Ashton
New No one
Nothing written in the post-war period will ever enter the public domain. Though I can't prove it, I have a feeling this will keep them out of the pantheon of greats.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Re: In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"...
Well, I still like Hesse and Romain Rolland. Mann is the Wagner of literature, with diseases in the place of Norse gods.


-drl

(Dm - 2Am)(Rmn + 1/2gmn R + 1/2Fmn) = 0
New Re: In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"...
"Mann is the Wagner of literature, with diseases in the place of Norse gods." --I suspect Mann might be well pleased with that evaluation...but how shrewd or how facile is the quip on your part?

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
     My name in Chinese... - (ben_tilly) - (21)
         Buy him a T-Shirt - (kmself) - (1)
             LOL - (cwbrenn)
         On the other hand, in Japanese... - (a6l6e6x)
         also means son as in jeshua ben joseph - (boxley) - (17)
             I am last - (ben_tilly) - (16)
                 In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"... - (CRConrad) - (15)
                     Actually I am named for my mother's uncle - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                         Excuse me, but I don't quite understand. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                             I meant... - (ben_tilly)
                     LOL! :-) - (static) - (1)
                         Glad to have been able to do *something* good for you! :-) -NT - (CRConrad)
                     Re: In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"... - (rcareaga) - (9)
                         No no no, sorry, I have to confess... - (CRConrad) - (6)
                             You might be a bit optimistic... - (rcareaga) - (5)
                                 not a lot but here is a few nominations - (boxley)
                                 Second on Vonnegut - (Ashton) - (2)
                                     Not certain about Vonnegut - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                         Ah yessss.. readin Clea around the swimmin pool.. - (Ashton)
                                 No one - (drewk)
                         Re: In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"... - (deSitter) - (1)
                             Re: In many languages (OK, in German), "a Benjamin"... - (rcareaga)

No. Just no. Not a potential no, a solid diamond-hard no. Like, seriously Chuck Norris testicles-hard no.
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