Yes, I am a citizen of the United States.

Post #92,021 by mmoffitt 3/26/03 9:01:04 PM Reply	Yes, I am a citizen of the United States. Consequently, I am still under the delusion that we have a Constitution which sets out the rules for our governance. bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #92,023 by boxley 3/26/03 9:02:06 PM Reply	fair enuff, thanx will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
Post #92,029 by ChrisR 3/26/03 9:07:32 PM Reply	Speaking of which. The usual reasons given for not going thru Congress are that the Executive branch must be able to react to events in a rapid fashion given the speed of technology and events. Problem I have is that the time frame for fast reaction here was months (not seconds or minutes). There was plenty of time to do the due diligence on this one - but the Legislative branch just sat on the sideline.
Post #92,035 by mmoffitt 3/26/03 9:11:30 PM Reply	The French are better Americans than we are. The major problem I have is that we, the guiding light of democracy, were the sole nation not to have a debate. HELL, Blair had the most to lose, didn't have to have a debate, but still did. Parliments the world over debated this issue. But us? Nope. We sElected a King who could use his imperial army any way he saw fit. And GOD! the SILENCE ON THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE EVEN FOR A SKEPTIC LIKE ME! But Dickey-boy's old buddies at Halliburton HAVE ALREADY MADE MONEY ON THIS WAR! CHRIST ALMIGHTY! WHERE IN HELL IS THE OUTRAGE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #92,040 by Simon_Jester 3/26/03 9:14:51 PM Reply	D00d...relax
Post #92,045 by mmoffitt 3/26/03 9:17:36 PM Reply	RELAX - HELL! These neo-fasciti are having people killed IN MY NAME (they are defending me, aren't they) so that the obscenely wealthy can make themselves even more obscenely wealthy and YOU want ME to RELAX? bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #92,062 by Simon_Jester 3/26/03 9:45:15 PM Reply	If you believe in Democracy (or even a Republic) wouldn't you agree that there will be times, when you as a citizen will find that your view on issues does not correspond to the view of others? (I know I have) I think that, depending on the system (Democracy/Republic), that we have agreed that in these instances, the view represented by the system (the people as a whole/the representative) will represent the whole. (That's not to say that a person's view isn't important or that they shouldn't be moved by it or that they shouldn't express it.) So, what happens when one's view differs from the whole? I think that one they then have 3 options that I've been able to see: They can do nothing - recognize that their view does not represent the system and live with it as best they can. (We live in an imperfect world) They can actively try to change others view by empathesising elements that are the basis of their own view in an effect to change the view of the whole. They can work themselves up in a lather - becoming more and more emotional involved - possibly driving them to act in an unwise fashion. (I like to term this one : The Rush Limbaugh-Clinton effect. ;-) I think the 3rd may be counter-productive. I suspect the 2nd is the most-productive and that the 1st is the easist on the gut. YMMV.
Post #92,066 by mmoffitt 3/26/03 9:50:09 PM Reply	You know what bothers me about that? Which category did the "Good German People of 1938-1941" fall into? bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #92,068 by Simon_Jester 3/26/03 9:53:44 PM Reply	<chuckle> you do pick the good ones, don't you? Yeah, there's a risk there...but it's part of being a citizen, imo. (I'm left wondering about the Good Germany People back then who stated they were too busy to get involved in Politics) There are other examples as well, though - from Sufferage to Civil Rights to others, people have worked to change others views....sometimes they succeed.
Post #92,034 by a6l6e6x 3/26/03 9:09:36 PM Reply	But, the US Congress gave Bush a blank check! [link\|http://usgovinfo.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa101102a.htm\|Congress Passes Iraq Use of Force Resolution]. Resolution Authorizes Use of Military Forces in Iraq Specifically, the resolution authorizes President Bush to: * use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to-- (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq. Gutless bastards. Alex Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Post #92,036 by mmoffitt 3/26/03 9:12:26 PM Reply	Understood. And there is no dark corner of hell hot enough for them all to burn in. bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #92,051 by bepatient 3/26/03 9:30:01 PM Reply	But... ..its not illegal ;-) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #92,054 by ChrisR 3/26/03 9:34:29 PM Reply	But... ...it's not really a War either - since only Congress can Constitutionally declare a War. Since we can't call it a War, let's call it something like a "Peace Action".
Post #92,074 by cybermace5 3/26/03 10:28:27 PM Reply	Technically... ...it's a continuation of Desert Storm, due to Iraq's continual breaking of the cease-fire agreement, we don't have to follow it anymore either....
Post #92,086 by ChrisR 3/26/03 11:27:49 PM Reply	Correct me if I'm wrong... ...but technically Desert Storm wasn't a declared War either.
Post #92,091 by gdaustin 3/26/03 11:41:50 PM Reply	Congress can't really declare a War anymore... Because many loan and insurance documents contain legal language with the phrase "Act of War". If a war is declared many insurance policies are null and void. Insurers can't insure for war, banks and finance companies cannot loan money if insurance can't be obtained. Heck, some bank/finance companies may even hold the right to demand notes be paid off at the declaration of war. So, I think the reason no war has been declared since 1941 is because we owe too much money, and we can't afford the consequences.
Post #92,094 by ChrisR 3/26/03 11:54:20 PM Reply	These Acts of War cover.... ...both Declared and Undeclared Wars. Indeed, there was some discussion after 9-11 by the Insurance Companies to not pay the policies based on it being an Act of War. The reason they didn't wasn't because the policies were bound to a formal Congressional Declaration, but rather it would have been a public relations disaster for the companies (inviting intense scrutiny in the future). At any rate, we still can't technically call these things Wars.
Post #92,055 by mmoffitt 3/26/03 9:36:13 PM Reply	Wrong. Congress cannot obsolve itself of its duty. bcnu, Mikem Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Post #92,058 by boxley 3/26/03 9:41:48 PM Reply	Im pro the war but On the legalities you are right the debate was silent for fear of political backlash, a buncha craven cowards. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org] Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
Post #92,076 by Another Scott 3/26/03 10:40:53 PM Reply	There's no blank check. Congress controls the checkbook. Congress has ultimate control via funding of the war. If Congress refuses to fund it, it won't continue. [link\|http://www.thenewamerican.com/departments/quotes/presidents_war_powers.htm\|Cite]: "Mr. Chairman, I think it is a fact of modern history that declarations of war are gone. I think they are anachronistic. I do not think they will happen. Clearly the Constitution assigns the declarations of war function to Congress and only to Congress. But declaring war has consequences in a technologically advanced world that nobody wants to face.... We have the untrammeled authority to unappropriate, disappropriate funds. That is the key; and that makes us the king of the hill." Representative Henry Hyde (R-IL) (Congressional Record, June 7, 1995) But of course you already knew that. :-) Cheers, Scott.

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