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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / News Picks Forum / The WTC survived the crashes just fine.
Post #8,700
by Another Scott
9/12/01 5:33:28 PM
Reply
New The WTC survived the crashes just fine.
They didn't survive the fires. Nothing could.

Listen to the [link|http://www.pbs.org/newshour/newshour_index.html|Real Audio] of the NewsHour segment last night entitled "Structural Questions". (I assume they'll have transcripts soon.)

The building was very strong and survived the impact just fine. The problem was the jet fuel fire which couldn't be put out in time. The steel softened and the upper stories collapsed, ram-rodding the rest of the building into the ground. If the steel hadn't softened, it would still be standing.

There are coatings they can put on steel to resist fires, and they're standard. But they're designed to resist a 3 hour office fire (paper, carpet, etc.), not a jet fuel fire. Nothing can stand up to that (at least nothing practical - you can't wrap every beam in 3 feet of asbestos or something...).

It wasn't the impact which did in the towers, it was the fire.

Cheers,
Scott.
Post #8,717
by addison
9/12/01 6:31:20 PM
Reply
New Doesn't change my point....
That is, according to marlowe, you have to account for *every possibility*. Now that we know you can fly an airliner into a building, surely you're negligent if you don't armor it and prepare so that it *won't* collapse.

Which is of course, absurd.

Right now, they're talking about banning knifes - even in resturants - in the airport, and on the plane. (hope you like grilled cheese when you fly, and dont' insist on the crust being cut off).

Which is starting to miss the forest for the trees, again.

You're absolutely right, at least I don't know that you're wrong.

The designers never really planned for THIS contingency - and at some point you *do* have to say "well, we can't cover that".

Addison
Post #8,745
by wharris2
9/12/01 9:24:49 PM
Reply
New Re: The WTC survived the crashes just fine.
If it collapsed, it didn't "survive the crashes just fine".

The designers just didn't take into account thousands (tens or hundreds?) of gallons of jet fuel poured into the structure. Unexpected side effects. As a programmer, I know all about that. This is a majorly ouch unexpected side effect.
That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
     A simple question nobody seems to ask - (Andrew Grygus) - (73) - Sept. 12, 2001, 09:44:27 AM EDT
         Up to now... - (Simon_Jester) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 09:54:59 AM EDT
             Tasers might be a good idea. -NT - (admin) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:00:56 AM EDT
                 Still useful to the wrong people... - (addison) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:04:41 AM EDT
         Gong! - (gdaustin) - (15) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:06:56 AM EDT
             I agree with your assessment... - (Simon_Jester) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:24:49 AM EDT
                 Odd random thought - (drewk) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:40:42 AM EDT
                     Luggage Laptops - (gdaustin) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:02:11 AM EDT
                 Passenger planes - (Steven A S) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:47:18 AM EDT
             You do realize... - (cwbrenn) - (7) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:47:41 AM EDT
                 I don't realize that. - (addison) - Sept. 12, 2001, 10:55:56 AM EDT
                 YOU DO REALIZE... - (gdaustin) - (5) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:16:16 AM EDT
                     Re: YOU DO REALIZE... - (addison) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:20:09 AM EDT
                         actually both is better than one -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:30:08 AM EDT
                             Praise the Lord and Pass the Powder - (cwbrenn) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:49:05 AM EDT
                     YES I REALIZE THAT, THANKS FOR SHOUTING - (cwbrenn) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:50:04 AM EDT
                     Something like that has happened once before - (bconnors) - Sept. 12, 2001, 06:11:14 PM EDT
             One answer: no carry-on; fly nude (G-strings). - (Ashton) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 06:35:49 PM EDT
                 Re: One answer: no carry-on; fly nude (G-strings). - (Steven A S) - (1) - Sept. 13, 2001, 09:43:34 AM EDT
                     Understood: free night-shades supplied on request_____:-\ufffd -NT - (Ashton) - Sept. 13, 2001, 08:01:14 PM EDT
         Asked and answered many times. - (addison) - (42) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:01:17 AM EDT
             Why do the cockpits have to be accessible from the cabin? - (mmoffitt) - (41) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:19:18 AM EDT
                 Lots of reasons. - (addison) - (40) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:25:00 AM EDT
                     Most of that could be fixed. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:40:15 AM EDT
                         Fixing is relative. - (addison) - (5) - Sept. 12, 2001, 12:14:12 PM EDT
                             Better a relative fix than an absolute abdication. - (marlowe) - (4) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:10:54 PM EDT
                                 Don't have airplanes. Then they can't crash. -NT - (addison) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:17:28 PM EDT
                                     A slightly more moderate version. - (marlowe) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:46:01 PM EDT
                                         I'm glad you've decided to moderate some. - (addison) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 02:15:12 PM EDT
                                             Concur on time. Ban everything except GA ;-) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:46:27 PM EDT
                     Lots of solutions - (marlowe) - (32) - Sept. 12, 2001, 12:24:05 PM EDT
                         There's *no* "justs" here. - (addison) - (31) - Sept. 12, 2001, 12:35:01 PM EDT
                             Seven to ten years? - (marlowe) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:15:50 PM EDT
                                 Yep. - (addison) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:18:46 PM EDT
                             OT: Kneejerk - (mmoffitt) - (12) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:23:13 PM EDT
                                 Not given the emergency. - (addison) - (11) - Sept. 12, 2001, 02:22:02 PM EDT
                                     It is weird. - (mmoffitt) - (10) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:44:39 PM EDT
                                         Not really. - (addison) - (9) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:57:07 PM EDT
                                             most arrests too... - (Simon_Jester) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:59:32 PM EDT
                                             So, what do we do? - (mmoffitt) - (7) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:20:16 PM EDT
                                                 No. - (addison) - (6) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:29:23 PM EDT
                                                     You know something I don't? - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:30:59 PM EDT
                                                         Just the NOTAM. - (addison) - (4) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:45:34 PM EDT
                                                             Can you imagine the NOTAMs that'll be out shortly? - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:56:42 PM EDT
                                                                 That's not that unusual. - (addison) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 05:05:19 PM EDT
                                                                     I know what flight following is. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 05:47:58 PM EDT
                                                                         OK - (addison) - Sept. 12, 2001, 06:37:45 PM EDT
                             Here's a question for you. - (marlowe) - (15) - Sept. 12, 2001, 01:24:54 PM EDT
                                 The answer is: - (addison) - (14) - Sept. 12, 2001, 02:25:27 PM EDT
                                     I blithely ignore nothing. Shame on you. - (marlowe) - (13) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:31:57 PM EDT
                                         Emotions gentlemen.... - (Simon_Jester) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:44:39 PM EDT
                                             But this is part of the problem. - (marlowe) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:11:06 PM EDT
                                         There's no shame attached to me. - (addison) - (10) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:53:32 PM EDT
                                             That's harsh. - (mmoffitt) - (9) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:29:22 PM EDT
                                                 It should be. - (addison) - (8) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:42:33 PM EDT
                                                     Had to reread my posts. - (mmoffitt) - (7) - Sept. 12, 2001, 04:50:45 PM EDT
                                                         Nobody's saying it's easy. - (marlowe) - (6) - Sept. 12, 2001, 05:10:29 PM EDT
                                                             You did. - (addison) - (5) - Sept. 12, 2001, 05:20:41 PM EDT
                                                                 The WTC survived the crashes just fine. - (Another Scott) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 05:33:28 PM EDT
                                                                     Doesn't change my point.... - (addison) - Sept. 12, 2001, 06:31:20 PM EDT
                                                                     Re: The WTC survived the crashes just fine. - (wharris2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 09:24:49 PM EDT
                                                                 All right. Maybe not so much words in my mouth as... - (marlowe) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 06:56:12 PM EDT
                                                                     Not as bad as - (addison) - Sept. 12, 2001, 07:38:20 PM EDT
         A few idiots with box openers who claimed to have a bomb... - (inthane-chan) - Sept. 12, 2001, 11:52:58 AM EDT
         They probably never would have got a chance to use it. - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Sept. 12, 2001, 03:35:06 PM EDT
             Re squawk, this time. - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 12, 2001, 07:30:04 PM EDT
                 Too much uncertain. - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 13, 2001, 09:44:47 AM EDT
         2 words... - (bepatient) - (6) - Sept. 13, 2001, 10:01:41 PM EDT
             double barreled no. 4 ? should stay in the hull -NT - (boxley) - (5) - Sept. 13, 2001, 10:21:44 PM EDT
                 Cockpits are really quite tough. - (Andrew Grygus) - (4) - Sept. 13, 2001, 11:52:34 PM EDT
                     Reminds me of a story... - (inthane-chan) - (3) - Sept. 14, 2001, 12:40:33 PM EDT
                         I remember that one - (wharris2) - (1) - Sept. 14, 2001, 01:20:39 PM EDT
                             Yup. - (inthane-chan) - Sept. 14, 2001, 01:24:42 PM EDT
                         We had "the chicken guy" - (Andrew Grygus) - Sept. 14, 2001, 03:04:55 PM EDT

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