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New Idea:
Oh well, if you don't like the open Source version -- and want to provide your new employer the satisfaction and peace of mind of having shelled out for a "real", commercial, product -- get the Big Brother of Firebird: [link|http://www.borland.com/interbase/|[link|http://www.borland.com/interbase/|http://www.borland.com/interbase/]]. Print out the .PDF datasheets and give them to your boss, or pore over them in the Little Room, or whatever.

But, "betaware"??? This is just about the only RDBMS that has been on the market for just about as long as Oracle, you know. (You sleep safe at night because, among many other things, it runs the M1 Abrams tank for your military -- how's that for "mobile, and embedded database applications"? :-)

Two hundred fifty bucks for the Media Kit and Server License, two thousand for a twenty-pack of Simultaneous User Licenses; a hundred bucks apiece. Is that expensive? (I honestly don't know what stuff like this costs.) Or get Delphi Pro for a thousand bucks and abuse the development edition of IB that comes with it. ;^) (Dunno if that is limited to just one or two simultaneous users, though.)

(Seriously, BTW, I was thinking when I read your description of your new job that this might be an ideal candidate project for Delphi's [Kylix's, C++ Builder's] ClientDataSet component. Pump stuff down to your PC/laptop/handheld/whatever, detach from the LAN, run around and edit the cached copies, re-attach and upload updated data... This being Simultaneous User Licenses, you only need as many DBMS licenses as you expect people to be attached and up- or downloading data at any one time.)
   Christian R. Conrad
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971|Andrew Grygus]
New Thanks for the idea
I used for work as a contractor for the US Army, I know how f*cked up their systems are. Their idea of data replication was loging into either a Telnet or Web Server and downloading a 300+ meg flat text file and then importing it into Oracle, SQL Server, Clipper, DBase, Access, and oh yeah Lotus 123 or Excel files for various projects that they had which ran the same report, with the same numbers, but at different speeds on different platforms, being emailed for many people who just ignore them except for a General or two who gets a big laugh out of them as they are reading them between rounds at the Golf course as they wait for one of my managers to take a turn at Golf. God I loved that job, too bad they had us migrate the data down to the AMCOM base as they closed down the one in St. Louis. Yeah there may have been an Interbase database or two, I wasn't impressed by them. Not something I'd want to use while running the M1 Abrams tank, but we mostly did the Aviation and Troop stuff, Interbase apparently sucked for that so they wouldn't let us use it. Same goes for DB2, and some others. After that job I cannot sleep at night knowing the technology that powers our military and how it works. Yes the whole army brought to its knees because a database buckled down and they have to resort to old data and the provisioning stuff cannot get out until someone fixes it. Which means anything with a NSN (National Stock Number) anything from an ID card to a Nuclear Bomb, isn't going to move until that one database that everything passes through on a Telnet or Web connection to download that huge flat text file. Saddam can thank the poor database design of the US Military that we haven't invaded Iraq, and kicked his sorry *ss yet. Wait until they can rebuild the server and database that powered the provisioning system to get the stuff moving again. Then we can move in those tanks, planes, boats, troops, smart bombs, and some skinny guy named Irving Snockpockets that wants to go over there and paint horns and a beard on every picture of Saddam that he can find in Iraq.

Interbase data sheets and whitepapers will be downloaded. Either my boss will like them or I'll get fired. Hey, you know of any job opening where you live? I think I got the last IT job in the USA where I live, if I blow this one my only chance is going to be getting a Work Visa and then move out of the USA. Or I could move to Huntsville and work for the military again, I hear they need help getting their database running again so they can kick Iraq's butt.

Two thousand is a lot of money. We have a cost per workstation that doesn't earn us a profit until they stick with us for at least 18 months at $700 a month. Which means it costs us $12,600USD per workstation to get them running and support them and get everything they need. Then after 18 months after all the software licenses, hardware costs, support costs, nose blowing, and other stuff gets paid off, we hope that they stick with us or else we are going to have to lay someone off again. Windows 2000 Server costs $1200USD for 10 Client Access licenses, I think that SQL Server is about that much or higher. Our average network can be anywhere from 8, 10, or 24 workstations per network. So the costs can be great. Of that $12,600USD cost, about $2,500USD of it is the POS (Point of Sale) workstation with the LCD screen, touchpad, barcode scanner, etc. It includes a license to use Windows 98SE (heck it even comes in a shrink wrapped package with a CD, a user's manual, and we put it into a little baggie for them). The rest is support issues, Server costs, Database costs, application liciensing fees, development, etc.

So yeah, I guess that $2000USD is a lot of money, but it could be less than the Microcrap licensing.

Uh, Borland still offers demo versions, right? I think my account may work, but last time I tried to download Kylix, it freaked out on me and I got a damaged file, even with WGET, even with Netscape Smart Download, even with WS_FTP, even with GFTP on CYGWIN, well you get the idea. I'll try again, but last time I did someone from Borland called me up "Didja install it yet? What did you think? How many copies can I put you down for?" I told them "The download was incomplete and I am still trying to configure my X-Server and Network connection in Red Hat Linux, if you want to help me with that, I'd sure apreciate it." to which they just said "Huh?" had a few momments of silence, and then said "Well, call our 800 number if you ever get things working...." [CLICK]

My Red Hat Linux 7.3 machine just got reformatted into Windows 2000 Server so I can test stuff out at home and don't have to log into a VPN (which doesn't seem to work when I do log into it, cannot see any servers from over the VPN connection) my other Windows 2000 Server shot craps and nothing can connect to it. System files just went missing, that Administrator account that I disabled, is enabled again. IIS went bye-bye, says it is running and using port 80, yet cannot view any files there despite the fact that I can load local HTML files into any web browser in the directory that IIS says it should be using. Oh heck, I think I'll have a better time with Whistler Beta 2, if it ever arrives from Microsoft. By the time it gets here, I might be able to upgrade to RC2 or something?

Anyone want to hire a slightly used Programmer/Analyst/DBA/Nerd/Computer Geek/Ex-Hacker(not cracker, hacker as in programming, not breaking into systems)/Ex-Unemployed then Reemployed and soon to be Unemployed Technology Worker who also used to build PC systems, work at a Help Desk, run his own business, was an Election Judge for a while (Both Democratic and Republican), ex-Burger Flipper (hey it paid college tuition), Temp Worker, and nice guy who is so nice that most managers would not want me to work in the same cesspool as them but will keep my contact info on their Rolodex in hope that they get a new job somewhere else kind of guy?

[link|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]
New FWIW
My push for Interbase at my company:

  Sybase Adaptive Server 1.5 IBM B2 Oracle 9i Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Interbase 6.0
Base Cost $3,995 $40,000 $80,000 $20,000 $200
Cost For 1 User* $795 $200 $600   $0
           
Total Cost $4,790 $40,200 $80,600 $20,000 $200
           
Market Share in year 2000 3.2% 30% 34% 15% ?
ODBC Driver X X X X X
JDBC Driver   X X   X
Runs on all popular OS’s X X X   X
Multi-dimensional Arrays         X
2-phase Commits Optional     Requires coding Automatic
Users WorldCom Almost Everyone who doesn’t use MS Everyone Almost Everyone US Army (M1 Abrams Tank), Motorola, Nokia, MCI, Northern Telecom, the Philadelphia Stock Exchange, Bear Stearns, First National Bank of Chicago, the Money Store, NASA, Boeing.

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
Expand Edited by tseliot Sept. 24, 2002, 11:43:37 AM EDT
New Thank you!
Now for your next trick:

Are there any tools from taking an Access or SQL Server database and migrating it over to Interbase? I am not talking about those flaky things like Erwin that won't even connect to the SQL Server 2000 (but could to a 6.5 or 7.0 server?) or at least the demo didn't, maybe the full version will? But they are not getting my money until I know it can get the damn job done.

When I did a search on Google to find IB and Firebird migration tools, I found results, but the links to those tools didn't work. Que? Others cost between $50 to $200, but the evaluation and demo versions didn't work, QUE? Are there any f*cking reliable database migration tools that f*cking work and don't cost an arm and a leg to buy? The cheapie ones appear to take one look at our Access or SQL Server database and freak out. Even the Microsoft Access 97/2000 Upsizing Wizard barfed on us. My coworker got p*ssed that I was using tools instead of trying to do it by hand. Yeah, I downloaded the damn things at home, burned a CDR because our company bandwidth sucks, and then took 15 minutes to try those tools out instead of taking a break. She took 20 minutes to chew me out for wasting the company time. If this stuff keeps up, I'm giving back the laptop, leaving the database migration product half-done (Hey good luck guys, see ya!) giving them all the source code and documentation to the projects that I was working on, taking all my computer books, my fan, my personal stuff, and then walking out and becoming a f*cking farmer after selling my house. I'd rather grow corn that have people block my path so I cannot get my job done. I'd grow corn, pay off the farm, n if the Government pays me to not grow corn, I will use that money to get a decent laptop (at least 1.2Ghz) and write Open Sourced software to do what my former employers had been doing. Then port it to as many platforms, databases, etc, that I can. Sound like a plan?

[link|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]
New Oh, yeah. Great plan. Good luck with that.
With all yer bitchin, you might have been done doing it manually by now ;)

Or, you could have spent 5 minutes in Google and come across [link|http://groups.google.com/groups?q=perl+access+dbi+structure+%22create+table%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=nfCu7.20025%24DJ3.1619578%40nlnews00.chello.com&rnum=3|this]. Maybe with a little lovin, it would give you the SQL you need to recreate your DB wherever the hell you want, indexes and all.

--
Chris Altmann
New Better link for that script...
[link|http://www.cynergi.net/exportsql/exportsql2b.txt|Here]

greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT,
curley95@attbi.com -- [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New Thank you guys
now if I can just get the two coworkers bashing MySQL to step down, and show my boss a working version of MySQL and use this tool/script to convert it, I might be able to get it to work.

I think that MySQL might be a better front end database than Access, and it would cut out one more Access project. But like I freaking said a million times by now, it is not within my fucking power to choose the database to run this on. It is the owner and the coworkers that have decided on SQL Server and they hired me because I knew SQL Server. Any ideas on how to convince them?

[link|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]
New Then do that
It is the owner and the coworkers that have decided on SQL Server and they hired me because I knew SQL Server.
Then do what they're paying you to do. Learn new skills on your own time on your own dime.
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
New I am doing that
I am setting up other databases at home. Learning new skills at home. I had an Oracle and SQL Server and MySQL set up at home and Postgres in Cygwin, but I just reformatted the server to start over clean to take work home. I'll put the databases back up, at home, and see what I can do.

I am only developing SQL Server and Access at work. No other database unless they tell me to, but if I learn at home, and they ask me to later, I'll have the skill set. Interbase was downloaded at home, and on my home system, not my server at work or my laptop at work. Besides I try out new software at home anyway.

[link|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]
New Please remove the returns in your post
To get rid of the big blank section.

Thanks,
Ben
"Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly."
- [link|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html|Walter Mead]
New Wish I could. zIWE parser put them in for me.

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
New You _can_
Just go into your nicely formatted html and s/\\n//g.

If there are no line breaks in what you submit, then no line break tags are inserted.

Within pre tags you may want to substitute in the line break instead for the obvious reason.

Cheers,
Ben
"Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly."
- [link|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html|Walter Mead]
New Table re-done, all purty like... only removed breaks

 Sybase Adaptive Server 1.5IBM DB2Oracle 9iMicrosoft SQL Server 2000Interbase 6.0
Base Cost$3,995$40,000$80,000$20,000$200
Cost For 1 User*$795$200$600 $0
      
Total Cost$4,790$40,200$80,600$20,000$200
      
Market Share in year 20003.2%30%34%15%?
ODBC DriverXXXXX
JDBC Driver XX X
Runs on all popular OS’sXXX X
Multi-dimensional Arrays    X
2-phase CommitsOptional  Requires codingAutomatic
UsersWorldComAlmost Everyone who doesn’t use MSEveryoneAlmost EveryoneUS Army (M1 Abrams Tank), Motorola, Nokia, MCI, Northern Telecom, the Philadelphia Stock Exchange, Bear Stearns, First National Bank of Chicago, the Money Store, NASA, Boeing.

greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT,
curley95@attbi.com -- [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
Expand Edited by gfolkertold Sept. 23, 2002, 08:46:37 PM EDT
New Whoop---Whooop---Whooooop!!!
Coolio... Breaks all gone!!! Excellent!

greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT,
curley95@attbi.com -- [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]

Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
New Ya NUT!
Didn't realize I was submitting to the Journal of Applied Screedology. :P

Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
     Alternatives to SQL Server 2000 - (orion) - (38)
         MySQL has table locking. - (static) - (16)
             Re: MySQL has table locking. - (wharris2) - (4)
                 Thans for the info - (orion) - (3)
                     DB2 - (gdaustin) - (1)
                         More Info... - (gdaustin)
                     Revision - (wharris2)
             Do you know - (orion) - (10)
                 First off... - (folkert) - (9)
                     Re: First off... - (orion) - (6)
                         Okay.... Now comes the tough part... - (folkert) - (5)
                             Excuse me - (orion) - (4)
                                 Pardon... - (folkert) - (3)
                                     Getting better now - (orion) - (2)
                                         Re: Way-Way-Cool - (folkert) - (1)
                                             Wow you figured it out? - (orion)
                     Greg, Greg, Greg...K5 moderation... - (kmself) - (1)
                         Uh... Are ewe crit\ufffdi\ufffdciz\ufffding my Englih? or my wait? - (folkert)
         Idea: - (CRConrad) - (14)
             Thanks for the idea - (orion) - (13)
                 FWIW - (tseliot) - (12)
                     Thank you! - (orion) - (5)
                         Oh, yeah. Great plan. Good luck with that. - (altmann) - (4)
                             Better link for that script... - (folkert) - (3)
                                 Thank you guys - (orion) - (2)
                                     Then do that - (drewk) - (1)
                                         I am doing that - (orion)
                     Please remove the returns in your post - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                         Wish I could. zIWE parser put them in for me. -NT - (tseliot) - (1)
                             You _can_ - (ben_tilly)
                     Table re-done, all purty like... only removed breaks - (folkert)
                     Whoop---Whooop---Whooooop!!! - (folkert) - (1)
                         Ya NUT! - (tseliot)
         Oops, disregard -- double posting! -NT - (CRConrad)
         Re: Alternatives to SQL Server 2000 - (broomberg) - (4)
             Believe me, I do not insist on it - (orion) - (3)
                 I might be smoking rope. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                     Uh yeah - (orion) - (1)
                         Depends on how you write it. - (mmoffitt)

So we're in the Temple of Mitra now?
151 ms