Post #427,707
2/25/19 3:56:06 PM
2/25/19 4:02:06 PM
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"For our parents or grandparents"? How old are you? Six?
It was *tuition-free* for me in 1977 at Long Beach Community College (as I've claimed elsewhere). Back then, Governor Reagan fought hard for tuition (being the Neo-Nazi Fascist he was), but failed. You want a "source" better than first hand? Fine. How about the NY Times from December 28, 1982? Emphasis Mine. California's public system of higher education, long the envy of many other states, is edging toward acceptance of something even Ronald Reagan, as Governor, could not force upon it: tuition. ...
The no-tuition concept was embodied in the state's 1960 Master Plan for Higher Education, which established a three-tier system of free public higher education and led to vast expansion.
The system grew to include nine campuses of the University of California, which accepts the highest achievers among high school graduates; 19 campuses of the California State University system, whose admission standards are less restrictive, and 106 two-year community colleges.
The new recommendation, by an advisory body to the Legislature and Governor, to a large extent addresses a semantic paradox left over from Mr. Reagan's eight years as Governor, ending in 1975.
Mr. Reagan fought hard in the Legislature to impose tuition at four-year colleges. He lost the battle to lobbyists for the university, who have long been among the most powerful in Sacramento. https://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/28/science/california-weighs-end-of-free-college-education.htmlThe world DID NOT start in 1983. HTH.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
Edited by mmoffitt
Feb. 25, 2019, 04:02:06 PM EST
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Post #427,708
2/25/19 6:51:41 PM
2/25/19 6:51:41 PM
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Heh.
California had a great public college system for a very long time. But they charge tuition now, like just about everywhere else. (Princeton recently stopped charging tuition and room&board to qualified students - just about everyone accepted with income < $160,000 gets full freight.) My dad went to Emory and the U of Chicago. He had to pay a nominal amount for tuition at those private schools (a few hundred a quarter, I think). It wasn't free, but it wasn't anywhere near as expensive as now and it was manageable with part time and summer jobs. The point is, we can't easily go back to those days of nearly free 4-year universities (as Martin points out, community colleges are a different matter). There are lots and lots of reasons why (universities being addicted to foreign students that pay full-freight; lack of space and facilities; issues with diversity ("Why should the 1% get full freight?" is a good question with lots of reasonable answers); etc. "Free college" now is snake oil. The problem with college isn't that it's not free, it's that it is so off-the-chart expensive in too many cases. Having kids work 10-20 hours a week and a few weeks in the summer to pay for college is fine. Having them $100k+ in debt for 10-20 years is not. That's why "debt free college" was, and is, a sensible approach. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #427,719
2/26/19 8:07:36 AM
2/26/19 8:07:37 AM
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A primary problem with college today is the idiotic notion that everyone should attend.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #427,720
2/26/19 8:34:52 AM
2/26/19 8:34:52 AM
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Why shouldn't people go to college?
Our brains don't stop developing until we're ~ 25.
Life is much, much more complicated now than it was 100 years ago.
Why isn't 2-4 more years of school a good thing?
(Note that I'm including some trade schools, on the job training, apprenticeships, etc., in this discussion. Whatever you want to call it, people need to be learning in formal settings past the age of 18.)
"Hey, grandpa left school in the 6th grade so that's good enough for me!!"
>:-p
But you're moving the goal posts - you don't honestly think that "free college" would cause huge problems for 4-year universities?
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #427,721
2/26/19 9:45:06 AM
2/26/19 9:45:06 AM
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I don't think "free" and "free tuition" are the same thing.
And, no, I don't think "free" in any case necessarily causes problems for four year schools. Provided, of course, only fit applicants are allowed into university.
With respect to trade schools, union halls, apprenticeships, etc. I think we're on the same page and I'm of the firm view that only about 15-20% or Muricans are qualified university applicants. The rest can join a union, become an apprentice, go to a trade school or what have you. There's no reason for them to be occupying space in a university.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #427,723
2/26/19 10:27:37 AM
2/26/19 10:27:37 AM
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You'd like Mike Rowe
He's a huge fan of trade schools and apprenticeships, and the idea that "college" should be reserved for the qualified. He's also funded by the Koch brothers. It's possible they may have arrived at their views via reasoning somewhat different from yours. I wonder what criteria they'd use to identify "qualified" applicants.
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Post #427,724
2/26/19 11:19:05 AM
2/26/19 11:19:05 AM
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I came to my view by being a TA.
It is both stunning and alarming how many students are admitted to four year colleges and universities in this country who have not mastered high school algebra. You'd be amazed.
bcnu, Mikem
It's mourning in America again.
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Post #427,726
2/26/19 1:50:34 PM
2/26/19 1:50:34 PM
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"Is the wavelength of light bigger than a breadbox?"*
You'd be amazed by all kinds of things.
That doesn't mean that people don't learn at and benefit from college.
Cheers, Scott * - that supposedly was a PhD oral exam question that someone had trouble with... :-/
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Post #427,729
2/27/19 12:02:46 AM
2/27/19 12:03:20 AM
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Das Deutschers ..properly? call it a Wissenschafft
Knowledge Factory; much can be extrapolated from the sense that: not Everyone IS really in search of that "liberal education" idea--so Many are in-it-for-the-Future-Money--and That's All! for a group as larges as you wish to 'define'.
Some folks imagineer that: being force-fed a variety of emotionally-sound Ideas--into a confirmed-Racist or Xen ophobe ..or just plain materialist-folk: they'd Change.
(More words would be superfluous, if this isn't a q.e.d.) ;^>
Edited by Ashton
Feb. 27, 2019, 12:03:20 AM EST
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