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New Did you see the the next line of that quote?
“I don’t think people want a new direction,” Pelosi sad. “Our values unify us and our values are about supporting America’s working families. That is one that everyone is in agreement on. What we want is a better connection of our message to working families in our country. And that clearly in the election showed that message wasn’t coming through.

"That message wasn't coming through" is not "everything is just ducky".

You can argue - and I'm sure you will - that it's not just a communication problem. But they're clearly not saying they don't need to change anything.
--

Drew
New There is the trouble. It *IS* the policies of The New Democrats that is the problem!
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Stay on point
Is she saying they aren't planning to change anything, or just what you think they should change?
--

Drew
New She's saying, "The only problem we have is with messaging."
She is saying, "Our policies and what we stand for are solid" or, everything is ducky with our policy positions, it's just we don't communicate them well. That is, of course, most definitely not the problem. On the contrary, people heard their message of the past 25 years clearly: we're abandoning the working class in favor of Wall Street, the Silicon Valley and identity politics. The trouble isn't that they couldn't get their message of the past 25 years out, it is that their message was received and overwhelmingly rejected by the working class.

If they don't learn that lesson, that working class Americans rejected this New, Third Way of the Democratic Party on policy grounds, then they're destined for the dustbin of our history.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New And if you wanted people to get the message that you support the working class ...
... which she says is the position she holds, how would you get that message out? Maybe by supporting policies that more clearly benefit the working class.

Jobs have been created under the Obama administration. The unemployment rate has gone down. A huge portion of the population doesn't know/believe that. That's clearly a communication problem. I won't say it's a "messaging" problem, because it's the media that deiced delivering that message wasn't fun or profitable.
--

Drew
New Jobs aren't the issue. Slaves had jobs.
80% of those jobs you speak of are minimum wage (read: sub-living wage) jobs, which in turn contributes to more corporate welfare.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New 23.7658% of statistics are made up on the spot...
New ...
From a report in 2014...
Tracking the Low-Wage Recovery: Industry Employment & Wages

This report updates NELP’s previous industry-based analyses of job loss and job growth trends during and after the Great Recession. The report shows that low-wage job creation was not simply a characteristic of the early recovery, but rather a pattern that has persisted for more than four years now.

We find that during the labor market downturn (measured from January 2008 to February 2010), employment losses occurred throughout the economy, but were concentrated in mid-wage and higher-wage industries. By contrast, during the recovery (measured from February 2010 to February 2014), employment gains have been concentrated in lower-wage industries.

http://www.nelp.org/publication/tracking-the-low-wage-recovery-industry-employment-wages/

More recently, ...
As we noted earlier, February [2016] suffered the biggest ever monthly drop in average weekly earnings, because not only did hourly earnings drop but so did hours worked, resulting in far lower overall weekly wages.

What caused this? Nothing our readers don't already know: recall that in January, "70% Of Jobs Added In January Were Minimum Wage Waiters And Retail Workers."

February was even worse: most of the jobs that were created, if only on a goalseeked, seasonally adjusted basis, were of the lowest paying, worst possible quality as has been the case for the past 7 years as the BLS desperately seeks to "pad" its political mandate of providing proof in a recovery which however is impossible if it were to tell the truth.

As a result, as the BLS itself admitted, "job growth occurred in health care and social assistance, retail trade, food services and drinking places, and private educational services" - all of which are the lowest-paying wage groups.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-04/over-80-jobs-added-january-were-minimum-wage-earners

But, the Democratic Party's strong ties to the Union Movement will help corre ... er, never mind.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Thanks for the links, but...


Median, full-time, real, earnings don't go up like that if "80%" of the new jobs are "minimum wage". (The recent low was Q2 2014.)

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Heh. You found a chart.
But then, there's this.

WASHINGTON — Americans last year reaped the largest economic gains in nearly a generation as poverty fell, health insurance coverage spread and incomes rose sharply for households on every rung of the economic ladder, ending years of stagnation.

The median household’s income in 2015 was $56,500, up 5.2 percent from the previous year — the largest single-year increase since record-keeping began in 1967, the Census Bureau said on Tuesday. The share of Americans living in poverty also posted the sharpest decline in decades.

The gains were an important milestone for the economic expansion that began in 2009. For the first time in recent years, the benefits of renewed prosperity are spreading broadly. ...

The economic recovery, however, remains incomplete. The median household income was still 1.6 percent lower than in 2007, adjusting for inflation. It also remained 2.4 percent lower than the peak reached during the boom of the late 1990s. The number of people living in poverty also remained elevated, although it shrank last year by about 3.5 million, or roughly 8 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/business/economy/us-census-household-income-poverty-wealth-2015.html

Also, this ...

Let me guess. There's nothing wrong with this and IT IS GETTING BETTER RECENTLY!!!ONE
If we'd only stick with these policies, in another couple of decades, the working class might be as well off as they were in 1998, amirite?

And there's this ...
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Yeah, things weren't too bad economically during Clinton's term. Good point! ;-)
New Yeah, except for the mortgage that came due in the 0's. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Also, they were immigrants too.
At least I split up my "also too". Where TF did that peculiar fad come from?
New Hey, some intellectual stringency there, please!
"She is saying, ... everything is ducky with our policy positions" IS NOT the same as her saying "EVERYTHING is ducky", which was your original claim.

You said the Dems claim "everything is ducky", Drook provided a counter-example, you proceeded to move the goalposts.

For shame.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Quick Study, aintcha..
Gettin through all the palaver thus far.. could you be an alien ... with a rilly Good human-suit,
..from the planet Strife?

Xenographers everywhere Want to Know!
New My point back then was, and remains today.
That if the Democratic Party doesn't purge the Eisenhower Republicans New Democrats from their roles along with their policies and continues to insist that their only problem is messaging then they will not get their working class base back any time soon. "Everything is ducky" with how the Democratic Party has been run since Bill Clinton took the wild swing Right is, incredibly, still the position of party elites.

Thomas Frank sums up nicely the real problem with the Democratic Party and it's most definitely not messaging.

You argue the abandonment of labor by the Democrats came to full fruition in the two administrations of Bill Clinton? How did Clinton who came from a working-class upbringing eventually betray the workers of the United States?

First of all, I'm not so sure about his background. It is true that he came from a very poor state, and that his family struggled, but Clinton's biographers always emphasize that he wasn't really of the working class: He always drove a new Buick, etc.

Clinton never had a really great relationship with workers' organizations, but the worst thing Clinton he did to them was NAFTA. There were many trade agreements, of course, but NAFTA was the one that mattered, both because it was the first one and because labor put everything into stopping it. Indeed labor had stopped it when George H. W. Bush tried to get it through Congress. Clinton got it done, however, with a little muscle and a vast fog of preposterous claims about how NAFTA would increase exports and manufacturing employment.

His admirers saw NAFTA as his "finest hour," because he had stood up to a traditional Democratic constituency. What an achievement. NAFTA handed employers all over America the ultimate weapon against workers: They could now credibly threaten to pick up and leave at the slightest show of worker backbone -- and they make such threats all the time now.

How did the Clinton administration become a surrogate of Wall Street, resulting in the far-reaching repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act?

In 1992, Clinton ran as a populist, deploring income inequality, but that was just an act. As president he seems immediately to have decided to cast his fortunes -- and those of his party -- with Wall Street. Bank deregulation was a persistent policy of his from the very beginning -- he signed the Riegle-Neal Act in 1994, for example, and the Mexican bailout (a big favor to Wall Street) came shortly thereafter. Along the way, he helped bail out a too-big-to-fail hedge fund, he twice appointed Alan Greenspan to run the Federal Reserve and he ensured that certain derivative securities would not have any kind of federal supervision at all.

At the time, Clinton's admirers thought this record was something to boast about. He had brought his party out of the Rooseveltian dark ages and had embraced modernity, etc.

Why did he do it? My explanation is simple class identification. Clinton's real class story has to do with his career in college and graduate school, where he became a star of the rising professional cohort. People with this kind of background saw (and still see) Wall Street as a part of the enlightened world, a part of the world inhabited by people just like them. They're so smart! Plucking wealth from thin air!

This is a little off message regarding the book, but can you speculate why the Republicans were so obsessed with removing Clinton from office when he was fulfilling so much of the GOP agenda, including negotiating with Newt Gingrich about cutting Medicare and Social Security?

(Emphasis Mine)

"Fulfilling so much of the GOP agenda": That is a point worth reiterating. Clinton had five major achievements as president: NAFTA, the Crime Bill of 1994, welfare reform, the deregulation of banks and telecoms, and the balanced budget. All of them -- every single one -- were longstanding Republican objectives. His smaller achievements were more traditionally Democratic (he raised the earned-income tax credit and the minimum wage), but his big accomplishments all enacted conservative wishes, and then all of them ended in disaster.

So why did the right try so hard to get rid of him? For one thing, because they always do that. They never suspend the war or stop pushing rightward. There is no point at which they say, "OK, we've won enough." For another, because Gingrich couldn't control the rank and file, a problem that persists to this day.

The final conservative consequence of the impeachment, although this one was surely not intended: impeaching Clinton made him a martyr and hence a hero to Democrats. It secured his family's and his faction's grip on the Democratic Party apparently forever.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36035-thomas-frank-bill-clinton-s-five-major-achievements-were-longstanding-gop-objectives

Leave us hope Frank's wrong about that last quoted sentence.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New ∑ then, for the foreseeable (via the 20-20 hindsight, the only 'viewpoint' that reliably Works?)
Just maybe--as the current POS/President of States? (Thanks Alex) demonstrates in every waking or somnolent hour--The 'President', signifying ONE
..appears to have outlived the palpable RISKS of there being just.. One-ONE-ONE.

A Triumvirate? or some device by which, the daily waking-nightmares of an obviously disturbed mind: could thus be ameliorated/not necessarily cancelled-out via requirement of at least ONE other Aye vote.
(And in the case where there is no consensus, as: when one demurs, we might contrive some other constraints on the launching of any matter which fairly begs to be incipiently Anti-Constitutional. [Find recent examples galore.)

320M homo-saps simply CANNOT be held hostage by any behaviort with immanent mental aberrations of the currently actual SCALE: in any contrivance counter to our Founding documents.

Rest case.


Ed:
immanent |ˈimənənt|
adjective
existing or operating within; inherent: the protection of liberties is immanent in constitutional arrangements.
• (of God) permanently pervading and sustaining the universe. Often contrasted with transcendent.


In other words, for those who imagine their children helping them with their walkers.. later on, and bringing Mo- Fa- thers' Day gifts + gemütlichkeit:
The offspring of those who allowed, nay Insisted upon ignoring the small window of anti-warming options we have, diminishing daily:

ALL 'KIDS' WILL DESPISE the authors of this lemming-march to the (rising) sea. (If nothing else works, how about 100,000 billboards 20' high, with variants of this Duh.. message?)
Expand Edited by Ashton May 9, 2017, 03:32:10 PM EDT
New Well then you made a shit job of stating it.
Or you didn't get mine.

Which was -- I'm typing slowly now, so you can keep up -- that not recognising their (main, if I've understood your thesis correctly) problem is their policies IS NOT THE SAME as claiming their only problem is messaging.

More things besides their policies and their messaging exist in the world, some of which might also be problems for them. (Demographics, the economy, random scandals, media biases, interaction between the former two... Just off the top of my head, in less than half a minute.)
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Oh, how I have missed the insults of my favorite Чухна.
Good to have you back, btw, since I haven't said that yet (I don't think).

I understand the distinction you make, but I apparently did do a "shit job" of stating my position because it is not that I believe the main problem with the Democratic Party is their policies since Clinton, I believe it is their only problem. Congresswoman Pelosi is the one insisting that there is nothing wrong with their policies, their policies are just fine thankyouverymuch. In her view, new policies ("a new direction") are uncalled for. To her mind, the only thing the Democratic Party needs is more effective propaganda messaging. Read in her in own words:
And our values are about supporting America’s working families. That’s one that everyone is in agreement on. What we want is a better connection of our message to working families in our country.

And that clearly in the election showed that that message wasn’t coming through


No, Nancy, you thick-headed twat. Given the recent elections, clearly not "everyone is in agreement" with the idea that the Democratic Party supports working families. Bill Clinton sent that idea to the grave, notwithstanding your messaging. The problem is that New Democratic policies do not match the messaging, not that the "the message wasn't heard." It was heard. Experience taught them not to believe it.

Her idea is that a failure to communicate is their sole problem. According to her, there's nothing wrong with their policies, it's only messaging and anyway, part of it is just cyclical.

DICKERSON: Here’s my question, though. Democrats -- since 2008, the numbers are ghastly for Democrats. In the Senate, Democrats are down 10 percent, in the House, down 19.3 percent, and in governors, 35 percent. The Democrats are getting clobbered at every level over multiple elections. That seems like a real crisis for the party.

PELOSI: Well, you’re forgetting that we were up 50 seats. We went up so high in 2006 and 2008. And let me just put that in perspective.

When President Clinton was elected, Republicans came in big in the next election. When President Bush was president, we came in big in the next election -- in subsequent elections. When President Obama became president, the Republicans came in big in the next election.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcript-december-4-2016-priebus-gingrich-pelosi-panetta/
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
     Re: Argument #13861. - (mmoffitt) - (52)
         thats not funny :-( -NT - (boxley) - (1)
             And why I moved it. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Yeah, Bernie and his people are going to lead a new Democratic Party. - (Another Scott) - (49)
             I fear the majority are with you. - (mmoffitt)
             Cole speaks for me, also too. - (Another Scott) - (47)
                 read a quote somewhere that sums up the issue for the dems - (boxley) - (45)
                     Yup, it's a problem. One of many. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott) - (44)
                         need a modrin tip oneil who realized that "all politics is local" -NT - (boxley) - (43)
                             The country isn't uniform. There won't be a 1-size-fits-all solution. - (Another Scott) - (42)
                                 not sure exactly what you mean about voter restrictions. - (boxley) - (41)
                                     One example. - (Another Scott) - (40)
                                         what is dificult, is a clear provision of what states can and cannot do with voter - (boxley) - (39)
                                             It's pretty easy - (drook) - (1)
                                                 define voting rates, define groups, define historical political preferences - (boxley)
                                             "States" aren't putting these restrictions in place. - (Another Scott) - (36)
                                                 politcal parties do it, whoever has the gold makes the rules - (boxley) - (35)
                                                     We have majority rule. But we also protect the rights of everyone who isn't in the majority. -NT - (Another Scott) - (34)
                                                         Well, we continue to tell our children such fantasies as-if True. - (Ashton) - (33)
                                                             impeachment is a forlorn hope unless congress and the senate changes hands -NT - (boxley) - (32)
                                                                 And if Democrats keep insisting everything is just ducky and it wasn't their fault that won't happen -NT - (mmoffitt) - (28)
                                                                     [sigh] Show me - (drook) - (27)
                                                                         ok, nother -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Heh. Nice try. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                         Re: [sigh] Show me - (mmoffitt) - (24)
                                                                             LRPD: And, of course, steaming poo... -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                                                             Which addresses zero of the three points I raised -NT - (drook) - (22)
                                                                                 None so blind as those who will not see. - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                                                                     Checking that we use words the same way - (drook) - (20)
                                                                                         I can't keep up with the goalposts. They move too fast. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
                                                                                             Did you see the the next line of that quote? - (drook) - (18)
                                                                                                 There is the trouble. It *IS* the policies of The New Democrats that is the problem! -NT - (mmoffitt) - (17)
                                                                                                     Stay on point - (drook) - (16)
                                                                                                         She's saying, "The only problem we have is with messaging." - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                                                                                             And if you wanted people to get the message that you support the working class ... - (drook) - (8)
                                                                                                                 Jobs aren't the issue. Slaves had jobs. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                     23.7658% of statistics are made up on the spot... -NT - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                                                         ... - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Thanks for the links, but... - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 Heh. You found a chart. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     Yeah, things weren't too bad economically during Clinton's term. Good point! ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Yeah, except for the mortgage that came due in the 0's. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                     Also, they were immigrants too. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                             Hey, some intellectual stringency there, please! - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                                                                                 Quick Study, aintcha.. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                 My point back then was, and remains today. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                     ∑ then, for the foreseeable (via the 20-20 hindsight, the only 'viewpoint' that reliably Works?) - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                     Well then you made a shit job of stating it. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Oh, how I have missed the insults of my favorite Чухна. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                 There could be a Congressional change in two years. - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                                                     midterms are usually bad for the president's party -NT - (boxley)
                                                                     2 YEARS!? OK, how many [brown people + families] suddenly/summarily rounded-up? - (Ashton)
                 How old were "the old guy's" most vociferous supporters? Just more establishment B.S. - (mmoffitt)

"Lord Vetinari won't stop at sarcasm. He might use" -- Colon swallowed -- "irony."
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