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New My point back then was, and remains today.
That if the Democratic Party doesn't purge the Eisenhower Republicans New Democrats from their roles along with their policies and continues to insist that their only problem is messaging then they will not get their working class base back any time soon. "Everything is ducky" with how the Democratic Party has been run since Bill Clinton took the wild swing Right is, incredibly, still the position of party elites.

Thomas Frank sums up nicely the real problem with the Democratic Party and it's most definitely not messaging.

You argue the abandonment of labor by the Democrats came to full fruition in the two administrations of Bill Clinton? How did Clinton who came from a working-class upbringing eventually betray the workers of the United States?

First of all, I'm not so sure about his background. It is true that he came from a very poor state, and that his family struggled, but Clinton's biographers always emphasize that he wasn't really of the working class: He always drove a new Buick, etc.

Clinton never had a really great relationship with workers' organizations, but the worst thing Clinton he did to them was NAFTA. There were many trade agreements, of course, but NAFTA was the one that mattered, both because it was the first one and because labor put everything into stopping it. Indeed labor had stopped it when George H. W. Bush tried to get it through Congress. Clinton got it done, however, with a little muscle and a vast fog of preposterous claims about how NAFTA would increase exports and manufacturing employment.

His admirers saw NAFTA as his "finest hour," because he had stood up to a traditional Democratic constituency. What an achievement. NAFTA handed employers all over America the ultimate weapon against workers: They could now credibly threaten to pick up and leave at the slightest show of worker backbone -- and they make such threats all the time now.

How did the Clinton administration become a surrogate of Wall Street, resulting in the far-reaching repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act?

In 1992, Clinton ran as a populist, deploring income inequality, but that was just an act. As president he seems immediately to have decided to cast his fortunes -- and those of his party -- with Wall Street. Bank deregulation was a persistent policy of his from the very beginning -- he signed the Riegle-Neal Act in 1994, for example, and the Mexican bailout (a big favor to Wall Street) came shortly thereafter. Along the way, he helped bail out a too-big-to-fail hedge fund, he twice appointed Alan Greenspan to run the Federal Reserve and he ensured that certain derivative securities would not have any kind of federal supervision at all.

At the time, Clinton's admirers thought this record was something to boast about. He had brought his party out of the Rooseveltian dark ages and had embraced modernity, etc.

Why did he do it? My explanation is simple class identification. Clinton's real class story has to do with his career in college and graduate school, where he became a star of the rising professional cohort. People with this kind of background saw (and still see) Wall Street as a part of the enlightened world, a part of the world inhabited by people just like them. They're so smart! Plucking wealth from thin air!

This is a little off message regarding the book, but can you speculate why the Republicans were so obsessed with removing Clinton from office when he was fulfilling so much of the GOP agenda, including negotiating with Newt Gingrich about cutting Medicare and Social Security?

(Emphasis Mine)

"Fulfilling so much of the GOP agenda": That is a point worth reiterating. Clinton had five major achievements as president: NAFTA, the Crime Bill of 1994, welfare reform, the deregulation of banks and telecoms, and the balanced budget. All of them -- every single one -- were longstanding Republican objectives. His smaller achievements were more traditionally Democratic (he raised the earned-income tax credit and the minimum wage), but his big accomplishments all enacted conservative wishes, and then all of them ended in disaster.

So why did the right try so hard to get rid of him? For one thing, because they always do that. They never suspend the war or stop pushing rightward. There is no point at which they say, "OK, we've won enough." For another, because Gingrich couldn't control the rank and file, a problem that persists to this day.

The final conservative consequence of the impeachment, although this one was surely not intended: impeaching Clinton made him a martyr and hence a hero to Democrats. It secured his family's and his faction's grip on the Democratic Party apparently forever.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36035-thomas-frank-bill-clinton-s-five-major-achievements-were-longstanding-gop-objectives

Leave us hope Frank's wrong about that last quoted sentence.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New ∑ then, for the foreseeable (via the 20-20 hindsight, the only 'viewpoint' that reliably Works?)
Just maybe--as the current POS/President of States? (Thanks Alex) demonstrates in every waking or somnolent hour--The 'President', signifying ONE
..appears to have outlived the palpable RISKS of there being just.. One-ONE-ONE.

A Triumvirate? or some device by which, the daily waking-nightmares of an obviously disturbed mind: could thus be ameliorated/not necessarily cancelled-out via requirement of at least ONE other Aye vote.
(And in the case where there is no consensus, as: when one demurs, we might contrive some other constraints on the launching of any matter which fairly begs to be incipiently Anti-Constitutional. [Find recent examples galore.)

320M homo-saps simply CANNOT be held hostage by any behaviort with immanent mental aberrations of the currently actual SCALE: in any contrivance counter to our Founding documents.

Rest case.


Ed:
immanent |ˈimənənt|
adjective
existing or operating within; inherent: the protection of liberties is immanent in constitutional arrangements.
• (of God) permanently pervading and sustaining the universe. Often contrasted with transcendent.


In other words, for those who imagine their children helping them with their walkers.. later on, and bringing Mo- Fa- thers' Day gifts + gemütlichkeit:
The offspring of those who allowed, nay Insisted upon ignoring the small window of anti-warming options we have, diminishing daily:

ALL 'KIDS' WILL DESPISE the authors of this lemming-march to the (rising) sea. (If nothing else works, how about 100,000 billboards 20' high, with variants of this Duh.. message?)
Expand Edited by Ashton May 9, 2017, 03:32:10 PM EDT
New Well then you made a shit job of stating it.
Or you didn't get mine.

Which was -- I'm typing slowly now, so you can keep up -- that not recognising their (main, if I've understood your thesis correctly) problem is their policies IS NOT THE SAME as claiming their only problem is messaging.

More things besides their policies and their messaging exist in the world, some of which might also be problems for them. (Demographics, the economy, random scandals, media biases, interaction between the former two... Just off the top of my head, in less than half a minute.)
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Oh, how I have missed the insults of my favorite Чухна.
Good to have you back, btw, since I haven't said that yet (I don't think).

I understand the distinction you make, but I apparently did do a "shit job" of stating my position because it is not that I believe the main problem with the Democratic Party is their policies since Clinton, I believe it is their only problem. Congresswoman Pelosi is the one insisting that there is nothing wrong with their policies, their policies are just fine thankyouverymuch. In her view, new policies ("a new direction") are uncalled for. To her mind, the only thing the Democratic Party needs is more effective propaganda messaging. Read in her in own words:
And our values are about supporting America’s working families. That’s one that everyone is in agreement on. What we want is a better connection of our message to working families in our country.

And that clearly in the election showed that that message wasn’t coming through


No, Nancy, you thick-headed twat. Given the recent elections, clearly not "everyone is in agreement" with the idea that the Democratic Party supports working families. Bill Clinton sent that idea to the grave, notwithstanding your messaging. The problem is that New Democratic policies do not match the messaging, not that the "the message wasn't heard." It was heard. Experience taught them not to believe it.

Her idea is that a failure to communicate is their sole problem. According to her, there's nothing wrong with their policies, it's only messaging and anyway, part of it is just cyclical.

DICKERSON: Here’s my question, though. Democrats -- since 2008, the numbers are ghastly for Democrats. In the Senate, Democrats are down 10 percent, in the House, down 19.3 percent, and in governors, 35 percent. The Democrats are getting clobbered at every level over multiple elections. That seems like a real crisis for the party.

PELOSI: Well, you’re forgetting that we were up 50 seats. We went up so high in 2006 and 2008. And let me just put that in perspective.

When President Clinton was elected, Republicans came in big in the next election. When President Bush was president, we came in big in the next election -- in subsequent elections. When President Obama became president, the Republicans came in big in the next election.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcript-december-4-2016-priebus-gingrich-pelosi-panetta/
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
     Re: Argument #13861. - (mmoffitt) - (52)
         thats not funny :-( -NT - (boxley) - (1)
             And why I moved it. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Yeah, Bernie and his people are going to lead a new Democratic Party. - (Another Scott) - (49)
             I fear the majority are with you. - (mmoffitt)
             Cole speaks for me, also too. - (Another Scott) - (47)
                 read a quote somewhere that sums up the issue for the dems - (boxley) - (45)
                     Yup, it's a problem. One of many. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott) - (44)
                         need a modrin tip oneil who realized that "all politics is local" -NT - (boxley) - (43)
                             The country isn't uniform. There won't be a 1-size-fits-all solution. - (Another Scott) - (42)
                                 not sure exactly what you mean about voter restrictions. - (boxley) - (41)
                                     One example. - (Another Scott) - (40)
                                         what is dificult, is a clear provision of what states can and cannot do with voter - (boxley) - (39)
                                             It's pretty easy - (drook) - (1)
                                                 define voting rates, define groups, define historical political preferences - (boxley)
                                             "States" aren't putting these restrictions in place. - (Another Scott) - (36)
                                                 politcal parties do it, whoever has the gold makes the rules - (boxley) - (35)
                                                     We have majority rule. But we also protect the rights of everyone who isn't in the majority. -NT - (Another Scott) - (34)
                                                         Well, we continue to tell our children such fantasies as-if True. - (Ashton) - (33)
                                                             impeachment is a forlorn hope unless congress and the senate changes hands -NT - (boxley) - (32)
                                                                 And if Democrats keep insisting everything is just ducky and it wasn't their fault that won't happen -NT - (mmoffitt) - (28)
                                                                     [sigh] Show me - (drook) - (27)
                                                                         ok, nother -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Heh. Nice try. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                         Re: [sigh] Show me - (mmoffitt) - (24)
                                                                             LRPD: And, of course, steaming poo... -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                                                             Which addresses zero of the three points I raised -NT - (drook) - (22)
                                                                                 None so blind as those who will not see. - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                                                                     Checking that we use words the same way - (drook) - (20)
                                                                                         I can't keep up with the goalposts. They move too fast. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
                                                                                             Did you see the the next line of that quote? - (drook) - (18)
                                                                                                 There is the trouble. It *IS* the policies of The New Democrats that is the problem! -NT - (mmoffitt) - (17)
                                                                                                     Stay on point - (drook) - (16)
                                                                                                         She's saying, "The only problem we have is with messaging." - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                                                                                             And if you wanted people to get the message that you support the working class ... - (drook) - (8)
                                                                                                                 Jobs aren't the issue. Slaves had jobs. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                     23.7658% of statistics are made up on the spot... -NT - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                                                         ... - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Thanks for the links, but... - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 Heh. You found a chart. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     Yeah, things weren't too bad economically during Clinton's term. Good point! ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Yeah, except for the mortgage that came due in the 0's. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                     Also, they were immigrants too. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                             Hey, some intellectual stringency there, please! - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                                                                                 Quick Study, aintcha.. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                 My point back then was, and remains today. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                     ∑ then, for the foreseeable (via the 20-20 hindsight, the only 'viewpoint' that reliably Works?) - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                     Well then you made a shit job of stating it. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Oh, how I have missed the insults of my favorite Чухна. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                 There could be a Congressional change in two years. - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                                                     midterms are usually bad for the president's party -NT - (boxley)
                                                                     2 YEARS!? OK, how many [brown people + families] suddenly/summarily rounded-up? - (Ashton)
                 How old were "the old guy's" most vociferous supporters? Just more establishment B.S. - (mmoffitt)

\o/
83 ms