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New Re: Argument #13861.
Clue by 4: She won *closed* primaries and barely won overall despite the Party apparatchiks working for her behind the scenes. Bernie won *open* primaries, you know, the kind that more closely represent the general election. Then, too, there's the inconvenient fact that many people who voted for Trump said they'd have voted for Bernie themselves. HTH.

This line of, er, reasoning on your part really causes me a great deal of concern. It is conventional New Democratic Party reasoning and the plain fact of the matter is that the New Democratic Party had its ass handed to it last month. If the majority of Democrats learn nothing from that - that they need to *abandon* this Clintonesque Third Way brand of politics - then they'll lose in '18 and '20 and for the foreseeable future. That's not what we want, is it?
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
Expand Edited by mmoffitt Dec. 28, 2016, 12:36:31 PM EST
New thats not funny :-(
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New And why I moved it. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Yeah, Bernie and his people are going to lead a new Democratic Party.
Oh, wait, Bernie still isn't a Democrat.

How's that going to work again?

:-p

Seriously, we've been through all this before. We're not going to convince each other.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I fear the majority are with you.
If they prevail, we will *lose* House and Senate seats in 18 and will *lose* the WH again in 20 - even if it is Trump running for re-election.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Cole speaks for me, also too.
New read a quote somewhere that sums up the issue for the dems
Showing up in a church every four years in October saying vote for me is not going to get it done
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New Yup, it's a problem. One of many. :-/
New need a modrin tip oneil who realized that "all politics is local"
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New The country isn't uniform. There won't be a 1-size-fits-all solution.
IMHO, the thing that probably matters most is overturning the voting restriction laws and having non-partisan redistricting. But those won't happen easily with the Teabaggers controlling so much of the country...

It's a long slog ahead.

Cheers,
Scott.
New not sure exactly what you mean about voter restrictions.
redistricting needs to be addressed, gerrymandering is way out of hand
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New One example.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/elections/voter-id-laws.html

In an election year when turnout could be crucial, a host of factors — foot-dragging by states, confusion among voters, the inability of judges to completely roll back bias — are blunting the effect of court rulings against the laws.

Last month in Texas, a federal court that invalidated that state’s voter ID law in July ordered recalcitrant state officials to change their public education campaign on new ID rules. The reason: Critics complained that the campaign muddied the central point of the court’s ruling, that voters without a state-approved ID could simply sign an affidavit to cast a ballot. In Kansas, the chief elections official, Secretary of State Kris Kobach, agreed last month to add nearly 20,000 properly registered voters to the state’s rolls only after being threatened with contempt of court.

And this month in North Carolina, plaintiffs complained to a judge that early-voting plans in five populous counties, including Charlotte’s Mecklenburg County, embraced some of the discriminatory practices that federal courts had outlawed this summer. That came after two senior Republican Party officials advised local elections boards in emails to choose polling places and voting hours that inconvenience minorities and other Democratic-leaning constituencies.

To Barry Burden, who directs the Elections Research Center at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, such episodes mirror a growing, worrisome use of election rules as tools to win elections, not run them fairly.


Voting needs to be a right that is more vigorously protected than the 2nd Amendment. It isn't.

Cheers,
Scott.
New what is dificult, is a clear provision of what states can and cannot do with voter
restrictions at the state level. Voting is a state and not a federal matter. However when states suppress civil rights the feds can step in. So what is needed is a level playing field that states can meet or exceed at the local level.
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New It's pretty easy
Don't enact rules designed to reduce voting rates among groups based on their historical political preferences.
--

Drew
New define voting rates, define groups, define historical political preferences
that sounds like the gerrymandering they do now
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New "States" aren't putting these restrictions in place.
One particular political party is. They are trying to pick their voters and impose their policies on the entire population without the freely expressed "consent of the governed".

Accurate framing matters.

Agreed that a level playing field is needed, but throwing up one's hands saying "it's a local/state matter" isn't the way to get there (even with strong civil rights laws). The feds stepping in after-the-fact doesn't help people who were disenfranchised.

Cheers,
Scott.
New politcal parties do it, whoever has the gold makes the rules
dont pretend it did not work in the other direction in the past and would in a heartbeat in the future
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New We have majority rule. But we also protect the rights of everyone who isn't in the majority.
New Well, we continue to tell our children such fantasies as-if True.
There are many similar representations (such as: that the the U.S. *IS* a "Democracy") simply because so few have the experience + imagination to notice ... the infinitesimal-number of those, actually 'ruling'.

Methinks that these Early-lies effectively condition most tykes to deem that Democracy IS a fait accompli, thence to ignore the word -vs- the deeds, get all hormone laced (earlier and earlier, on our Nat'l weird diet) ... focus on getting laid and..

NEVER get back to re-thinking the disconnect 'twixt our folklore and all those actualities.



I don't think that The Planet has the time to await a massive re-Education program/over a couple or three generations: just to stop the early lying, that which has proven so effective at bypassing 'intelligence' via its inculcation of wishful thinking.

Rest case.
(With Drumpf soon able to throw freight-cars-ful of monkey wrenches into gears, isn't any suggestion ... at all about 'informing-the-masses' ..just more inane whistling past the cemetery?)
We can still hope that: next week.. say.. the mofo shall make some Gaffe So-stupendous that (at-the-very-least) the I-word Happens: impeachment forthwith.

Sure.. we can hope..
New impeachment is a forlorn hope unless congress and the senate changes hands
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New And if Democrats keep insisting everything is just ducky and it wasn't their fault that won't happen
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New [sigh] Show me
Show me any evidence Democrats are a monolithic block who all "insist" the same thing.

Show me any Democrats insisting everything is just ducky.

Show me any Democrats saying there was nothing they could have done differently.
--

Drew
New ok, nother
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New Heh. Nice try. ;-)
New Re: [sigh] Show me
It was Comey's fault...
At one point on the call, Podesta noted that Comey is the guy “who we think may have cost us the election,” according to one Clinton surrogate who relayed details about the call to The Hill.

Another unidentified aide also seemed to blame Comey.

“We saw turnout down and didn't do nearly as well as we thought. Something happened and it happened in a pretty steady way late in the race,” the aide said, according to the surrogate.

The surrogate said the clear message from the call was that Comey had contributed to the declining turnout.

“That last week, it was just one too many things,” Palmieri added later, referring to the post-Comey final week of the campaign.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/305501-clinton-aides-blame-fbi-director-media-for-devastating-loss

No. It was Jill Stein's fault ...
According to a tweet from Cook Political Report’s Dave Wasserman on Thursday, the margin of difference separating the president-elect from his Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton in the three “Blue Wall” states — Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan — was less than the total number of votes received by Green Party nominee Jill Stein in each of those states:

Follow
Dave Wasserman ✔ @Redistrict
Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016.

Stein votes/Trump margin:
MI: 51,463/10,704
PA: 49,678/46,765
WI: 31,006/22,177
2:29 PM - 1 Dec 2016

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/02/jill-stein-spoiled-the-2016-election-for-hillary-clinton/

No, it was the Russians. Er, the Russians and Comey.
Hillary Clinton said on Thursday that the hacking attacks carried out by Russia against her campaign and the Democratic National Committee were intended “to undermine our democracy” and were ordered by Vladimir V. Putin “because he has a personal beef against me.”
...Mrs. Clinton said the hacking was one of two “unprecedented” events that led to her defeat. The other was the release of a letter by James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, shortly before the election disclosing new questions about emails handled by her private server. The letter, she said, cost her close races in several battleground states.

“Swing-state voters made their decisions in the final days breaking against me because of the F.B.I. letter from Director Comey,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/us/politics/hillary-clinton-russia-fbi-comey.html
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New LRPD: And, of course, steaming poo...
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Which addresses zero of the three points I raised
--

Drew
New None so blind as those who will not see.
This direct enough for you?
“I don’t think people want a new direction,” Pelosi told CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “Our values unify us and our values are about supporting America’s working families.”

http://nypost.com/2016/12/04/nancy-pelosi-i-dont-think-democrats-want-a-new-direction/
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
Expand Edited by mmoffitt Jan. 1, 2017, 12:28:16 PM EST
New Checking that we use words the same way
Is there a difference among these:

a. Leaked emails contributed to Hillary's loss.

b. Leaked emails were the primary cause of Hillary's loss.

c. Hillary ran a flawless campaign, spoiled only by the leaked emails.

I think I'm saying the first, but you're arguing against the third.
--

Drew
New I can't keep up with the goalposts. They move too fast.
Pelosi's quote pretty much directly satisfies your original request that I, "Show me any Democrats insisting everything is just ducky."

"We don't need a new direction" == "everything is just ducky."
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Did you see the the next line of that quote?
“I don’t think people want a new direction,” Pelosi sad. “Our values unify us and our values are about supporting America’s working families. That is one that everyone is in agreement on. What we want is a better connection of our message to working families in our country. And that clearly in the election showed that message wasn’t coming through.

"That message wasn't coming through" is not "everything is just ducky".

You can argue - and I'm sure you will - that it's not just a communication problem. But they're clearly not saying they don't need to change anything.
--

Drew
New There is the trouble. It *IS* the policies of The New Democrats that is the problem!
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Stay on point
Is she saying they aren't planning to change anything, or just what you think they should change?
--

Drew
New She's saying, "The only problem we have is with messaging."
She is saying, "Our policies and what we stand for are solid" or, everything is ducky with our policy positions, it's just we don't communicate them well. That is, of course, most definitely not the problem. On the contrary, people heard their message of the past 25 years clearly: we're abandoning the working class in favor of Wall Street, the Silicon Valley and identity politics. The trouble isn't that they couldn't get their message of the past 25 years out, it is that their message was received and overwhelmingly rejected by the working class.

If they don't learn that lesson, that working class Americans rejected this New, Third Way of the Democratic Party on policy grounds, then they're destined for the dustbin of our history.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New And if you wanted people to get the message that you support the working class ...
... which she says is the position she holds, how would you get that message out? Maybe by supporting policies that more clearly benefit the working class.

Jobs have been created under the Obama administration. The unemployment rate has gone down. A huge portion of the population doesn't know/believe that. That's clearly a communication problem. I won't say it's a "messaging" problem, because it's the media that deiced delivering that message wasn't fun or profitable.
--

Drew
New Jobs aren't the issue. Slaves had jobs.
80% of those jobs you speak of are minimum wage (read: sub-living wage) jobs, which in turn contributes to more corporate welfare.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New 23.7658% of statistics are made up on the spot...
New ...
From a report in 2014...
Tracking the Low-Wage Recovery: Industry Employment & Wages

This report updates NELP’s previous industry-based analyses of job loss and job growth trends during and after the Great Recession. The report shows that low-wage job creation was not simply a characteristic of the early recovery, but rather a pattern that has persisted for more than four years now.

We find that during the labor market downturn (measured from January 2008 to February 2010), employment losses occurred throughout the economy, but were concentrated in mid-wage and higher-wage industries. By contrast, during the recovery (measured from February 2010 to February 2014), employment gains have been concentrated in lower-wage industries.

http://www.nelp.org/publication/tracking-the-low-wage-recovery-industry-employment-wages/

More recently, ...
As we noted earlier, February [2016] suffered the biggest ever monthly drop in average weekly earnings, because not only did hourly earnings drop but so did hours worked, resulting in far lower overall weekly wages.

What caused this? Nothing our readers don't already know: recall that in January, "70% Of Jobs Added In January Were Minimum Wage Waiters And Retail Workers."

February was even worse: most of the jobs that were created, if only on a goalseeked, seasonally adjusted basis, were of the lowest paying, worst possible quality as has been the case for the past 7 years as the BLS desperately seeks to "pad" its political mandate of providing proof in a recovery which however is impossible if it were to tell the truth.

As a result, as the BLS itself admitted, "job growth occurred in health care and social assistance, retail trade, food services and drinking places, and private educational services" - all of which are the lowest-paying wage groups.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-04/over-80-jobs-added-january-were-minimum-wage-earners

But, the Democratic Party's strong ties to the Union Movement will help corre ... er, never mind.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Thanks for the links, but...


Median, full-time, real, earnings don't go up like that if "80%" of the new jobs are "minimum wage". (The recent low was Q2 2014.)

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Heh. You found a chart.
But then, there's this.

WASHINGTON — Americans last year reaped the largest economic gains in nearly a generation as poverty fell, health insurance coverage spread and incomes rose sharply for households on every rung of the economic ladder, ending years of stagnation.

The median household’s income in 2015 was $56,500, up 5.2 percent from the previous year — the largest single-year increase since record-keeping began in 1967, the Census Bureau said on Tuesday. The share of Americans living in poverty also posted the sharpest decline in decades.

The gains were an important milestone for the economic expansion that began in 2009. For the first time in recent years, the benefits of renewed prosperity are spreading broadly. ...

The economic recovery, however, remains incomplete. The median household income was still 1.6 percent lower than in 2007, adjusting for inflation. It also remained 2.4 percent lower than the peak reached during the boom of the late 1990s. The number of people living in poverty also remained elevated, although it shrank last year by about 3.5 million, or roughly 8 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/business/economy/us-census-household-income-poverty-wealth-2015.html

Also, this ...

Let me guess. There's nothing wrong with this and IT IS GETTING BETTER RECENTLY!!!ONE
If we'd only stick with these policies, in another couple of decades, the working class might be as well off as they were in 1998, amirite?

And there's this ...
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Yeah, things weren't too bad economically during Clinton's term. Good point! ;-)
New Yeah, except for the mortgage that came due in the 0's. ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Also, they were immigrants too.
At least I split up my "also too". Where TF did that peculiar fad come from?
New Hey, some intellectual stringency there, please!
"She is saying, ... everything is ducky with our policy positions" IS NOT the same as her saying "EVERYTHING is ducky", which was your original claim.

You said the Dems claim "everything is ducky", Drook provided a counter-example, you proceeded to move the goalposts.

For shame.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Quick Study, aintcha..
Gettin through all the palaver thus far.. could you be an alien ... with a rilly Good human-suit,
..from the planet Strife?

Xenographers everywhere Want to Know!
New My point back then was, and remains today.
That if the Democratic Party doesn't purge the Eisenhower Republicans New Democrats from their roles along with their policies and continues to insist that their only problem is messaging then they will not get their working class base back any time soon. "Everything is ducky" with how the Democratic Party has been run since Bill Clinton took the wild swing Right is, incredibly, still the position of party elites.

Thomas Frank sums up nicely the real problem with the Democratic Party and it's most definitely not messaging.

You argue the abandonment of labor by the Democrats came to full fruition in the two administrations of Bill Clinton? How did Clinton who came from a working-class upbringing eventually betray the workers of the United States?

First of all, I'm not so sure about his background. It is true that he came from a very poor state, and that his family struggled, but Clinton's biographers always emphasize that he wasn't really of the working class: He always drove a new Buick, etc.

Clinton never had a really great relationship with workers' organizations, but the worst thing Clinton he did to them was NAFTA. There were many trade agreements, of course, but NAFTA was the one that mattered, both because it was the first one and because labor put everything into stopping it. Indeed labor had stopped it when George H. W. Bush tried to get it through Congress. Clinton got it done, however, with a little muscle and a vast fog of preposterous claims about how NAFTA would increase exports and manufacturing employment.

His admirers saw NAFTA as his "finest hour," because he had stood up to a traditional Democratic constituency. What an achievement. NAFTA handed employers all over America the ultimate weapon against workers: They could now credibly threaten to pick up and leave at the slightest show of worker backbone -- and they make such threats all the time now.

How did the Clinton administration become a surrogate of Wall Street, resulting in the far-reaching repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act?

In 1992, Clinton ran as a populist, deploring income inequality, but that was just an act. As president he seems immediately to have decided to cast his fortunes -- and those of his party -- with Wall Street. Bank deregulation was a persistent policy of his from the very beginning -- he signed the Riegle-Neal Act in 1994, for example, and the Mexican bailout (a big favor to Wall Street) came shortly thereafter. Along the way, he helped bail out a too-big-to-fail hedge fund, he twice appointed Alan Greenspan to run the Federal Reserve and he ensured that certain derivative securities would not have any kind of federal supervision at all.

At the time, Clinton's admirers thought this record was something to boast about. He had brought his party out of the Rooseveltian dark ages and had embraced modernity, etc.

Why did he do it? My explanation is simple class identification. Clinton's real class story has to do with his career in college and graduate school, where he became a star of the rising professional cohort. People with this kind of background saw (and still see) Wall Street as a part of the enlightened world, a part of the world inhabited by people just like them. They're so smart! Plucking wealth from thin air!

This is a little off message regarding the book, but can you speculate why the Republicans were so obsessed with removing Clinton from office when he was fulfilling so much of the GOP agenda, including negotiating with Newt Gingrich about cutting Medicare and Social Security?

(Emphasis Mine)

"Fulfilling so much of the GOP agenda": That is a point worth reiterating. Clinton had five major achievements as president: NAFTA, the Crime Bill of 1994, welfare reform, the deregulation of banks and telecoms, and the balanced budget. All of them -- every single one -- were longstanding Republican objectives. His smaller achievements were more traditionally Democratic (he raised the earned-income tax credit and the minimum wage), but his big accomplishments all enacted conservative wishes, and then all of them ended in disaster.

So why did the right try so hard to get rid of him? For one thing, because they always do that. They never suspend the war or stop pushing rightward. There is no point at which they say, "OK, we've won enough." For another, because Gingrich couldn't control the rank and file, a problem that persists to this day.

The final conservative consequence of the impeachment, although this one was surely not intended: impeaching Clinton made him a martyr and hence a hero to Democrats. It secured his family's and his faction's grip on the Democratic Party apparently forever.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36035-thomas-frank-bill-clinton-s-five-major-achievements-were-longstanding-gop-objectives

Leave us hope Frank's wrong about that last quoted sentence.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New ∑ then, for the foreseeable (via the 20-20 hindsight, the only 'viewpoint' that reliably Works?)
Just maybe--as the current POS/President of States? (Thanks Alex) demonstrates in every waking or somnolent hour--The 'President', signifying ONE
..appears to have outlived the palpable RISKS of there being just.. One-ONE-ONE.

A Triumvirate? or some device by which, the daily waking-nightmares of an obviously disturbed mind: could thus be ameliorated/not necessarily cancelled-out via requirement of at least ONE other Aye vote.
(And in the case where there is no consensus, as: when one demurs, we might contrive some other constraints on the launching of any matter which fairly begs to be incipiently Anti-Constitutional. [Find recent examples galore.)

320M homo-saps simply CANNOT be held hostage by any behaviort with immanent mental aberrations of the currently actual SCALE: in any contrivance counter to our Founding documents.

Rest case.


Ed:
immanent |ˈimənənt|
adjective
existing or operating within; inherent: the protection of liberties is immanent in constitutional arrangements.
• (of God) permanently pervading and sustaining the universe. Often contrasted with transcendent.


In other words, for those who imagine their children helping them with their walkers.. later on, and bringing Mo- Fa- thers' Day gifts + gemütlichkeit:
The offspring of those who allowed, nay Insisted upon ignoring the small window of anti-warming options we have, diminishing daily:

ALL 'KIDS' WILL DESPISE the authors of this lemming-march to the (rising) sea. (If nothing else works, how about 100,000 billboards 20' high, with variants of this Duh.. message?)
Expand Edited by Ashton May 9, 2017, 03:32:10 PM EDT
New Well then you made a shit job of stating it.
Or you didn't get mine.

Which was -- I'm typing slowly now, so you can keep up -- that not recognising their (main, if I've understood your thesis correctly) problem is their policies IS NOT THE SAME as claiming their only problem is messaging.

More things besides their policies and their messaging exist in the world, some of which might also be problems for them. (Demographics, the economy, random scandals, media biases, interaction between the former two... Just off the top of my head, in less than half a minute.)
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Oh, how I have missed the insults of my favorite Чухна.
Good to have you back, btw, since I haven't said that yet (I don't think).

I understand the distinction you make, but I apparently did do a "shit job" of stating my position because it is not that I believe the main problem with the Democratic Party is their policies since Clinton, I believe it is their only problem. Congresswoman Pelosi is the one insisting that there is nothing wrong with their policies, their policies are just fine thankyouverymuch. In her view, new policies ("a new direction") are uncalled for. To her mind, the only thing the Democratic Party needs is more effective propaganda messaging. Read in her in own words:
And our values are about supporting America’s working families. That’s one that everyone is in agreement on. What we want is a better connection of our message to working families in our country.

And that clearly in the election showed that that message wasn’t coming through


No, Nancy, you thick-headed twat. Given the recent elections, clearly not "everyone is in agreement" with the idea that the Democratic Party supports working families. Bill Clinton sent that idea to the grave, notwithstanding your messaging. The problem is that New Democratic policies do not match the messaging, not that the "the message wasn't heard." It was heard. Experience taught them not to believe it.

Her idea is that a failure to communicate is their sole problem. According to her, there's nothing wrong with their policies, it's only messaging and anyway, part of it is just cyclical.

DICKERSON: Here’s my question, though. Democrats -- since 2008, the numbers are ghastly for Democrats. In the Senate, Democrats are down 10 percent, in the House, down 19.3 percent, and in governors, 35 percent. The Democrats are getting clobbered at every level over multiple elections. That seems like a real crisis for the party.

PELOSI: Well, you’re forgetting that we were up 50 seats. We went up so high in 2006 and 2008. And let me just put that in perspective.

When President Clinton was elected, Republicans came in big in the next election. When President Bush was president, we came in big in the next election -- in subsequent elections. When President Obama became president, the Republicans came in big in the next election.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcript-december-4-2016-priebus-gingrich-pelosi-panetta/
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New There could be a Congressional change in two years.
Remember 2010?
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New midterms are usually bad for the president's party
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New 2 YEARS!? OK, how many [brown people + families] suddenly/summarily rounded-up?
(..in modrin equiv. of Boxcars?) stripped of any actual means of rebuttal to a mass-order,
resulting--after some heavy-handed guard maulings--in that redneck-fav: 2nd Amendment recourses

..does it take to unleash that Chaos fairly Bursting to Come Out (in answer to many and varied rationales) ???

I. Mean. If this mofo (á lá Shrub's early-on claim of 'Mandate') manifests that pukka- Bully Boy seen so often in his dealings with
{anyone with a net worth under a $B, in any 'Deal') ... an overnight new Pressure Group would coalesce: M.A.D.G.

Mothers Against Drunk Governance
(while some willl stick with plain-MADD: M. A. Drunk Drumpfs)



As to what this sociopath might destroy .??. in quite less-than TWO Whole YEARS:
Whaddaya Think, sports fans?
New How old were "the old guy's" most vociferous supporters? Just more establishment B.S.
Keep playing that game and I'll realize my long expected revolution! :0)
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
     Re: Argument #13861. - (mmoffitt) - (52)
         thats not funny :-( -NT - (boxley) - (1)
             And why I moved it. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Yeah, Bernie and his people are going to lead a new Democratic Party. - (Another Scott) - (49)
             I fear the majority are with you. - (mmoffitt)
             Cole speaks for me, also too. - (Another Scott) - (47)
                 read a quote somewhere that sums up the issue for the dems - (boxley) - (45)
                     Yup, it's a problem. One of many. :-/ -NT - (Another Scott) - (44)
                         need a modrin tip oneil who realized that "all politics is local" -NT - (boxley) - (43)
                             The country isn't uniform. There won't be a 1-size-fits-all solution. - (Another Scott) - (42)
                                 not sure exactly what you mean about voter restrictions. - (boxley) - (41)
                                     One example. - (Another Scott) - (40)
                                         what is dificult, is a clear provision of what states can and cannot do with voter - (boxley) - (39)
                                             It's pretty easy - (drook) - (1)
                                                 define voting rates, define groups, define historical political preferences - (boxley)
                                             "States" aren't putting these restrictions in place. - (Another Scott) - (36)
                                                 politcal parties do it, whoever has the gold makes the rules - (boxley) - (35)
                                                     We have majority rule. But we also protect the rights of everyone who isn't in the majority. -NT - (Another Scott) - (34)
                                                         Well, we continue to tell our children such fantasies as-if True. - (Ashton) - (33)
                                                             impeachment is a forlorn hope unless congress and the senate changes hands -NT - (boxley) - (32)
                                                                 And if Democrats keep insisting everything is just ducky and it wasn't their fault that won't happen -NT - (mmoffitt) - (28)
                                                                     [sigh] Show me - (drook) - (27)
                                                                         ok, nother -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                             Heh. Nice try. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                         Re: [sigh] Show me - (mmoffitt) - (24)
                                                                             LRPD: And, of course, steaming poo... -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                                                             Which addresses zero of the three points I raised -NT - (drook) - (22)
                                                                                 None so blind as those who will not see. - (mmoffitt) - (21)
                                                                                     Checking that we use words the same way - (drook) - (20)
                                                                                         I can't keep up with the goalposts. They move too fast. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
                                                                                             Did you see the the next line of that quote? - (drook) - (18)
                                                                                                 There is the trouble. It *IS* the policies of The New Democrats that is the problem! -NT - (mmoffitt) - (17)
                                                                                                     Stay on point - (drook) - (16)
                                                                                                         She's saying, "The only problem we have is with messaging." - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                                                                                             And if you wanted people to get the message that you support the working class ... - (drook) - (8)
                                                                                                                 Jobs aren't the issue. Slaves had jobs. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                     23.7658% of statistics are made up on the spot... -NT - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                                                                         ... - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Thanks for the links, but... - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 Heh. You found a chart. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     Yeah, things weren't too bad economically during Clinton's term. Good point! ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Yeah, except for the mortgage that came due in the 0's. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                     Also, they were immigrants too. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                             Hey, some intellectual stringency there, please! - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                                                                                                 Quick Study, aintcha.. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                 My point back then was, and remains today. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                     ∑ then, for the foreseeable (via the 20-20 hindsight, the only 'viewpoint' that reliably Works?) - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                     Well then you made a shit job of stating it. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                                                                         Oh, how I have missed the insults of my favorite Чухна. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                 There could be a Congressional change in two years. - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                                                     midterms are usually bad for the president's party -NT - (boxley)
                                                                     2 YEARS!? OK, how many [brown people + families] suddenly/summarily rounded-up? - (Ashton)
                 How old were "the old guy's" most vociferous supporters? Just more establishment B.S. - (mmoffitt)

I like it warm and pink, with the whip-marks still on it.
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