Bravo!

Post #393,891 by Another Scott 8/29/14 9:00:49 PM Reply	Bravo! Very well done. Reminds me of a bit of poetry from olden days... Modern SCO Executive :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #393,897 by Ashton 8/30/14 3:03:33 AM Reply	Thanks.. tried a G&S send-up (of something? then topical) in our ill-attended IWE-WIki way-back; it was fun to get the ac-cent' upon the right syll-á-ble and all; alas the few entries were digital-minutiae.. fine for the intellectual-centre, but ... you know, any emotional poesy just goes Zoom ..when in pedestrian data-acquisition mode. Miss Rick Moen too; forget what internal squabblings (as with Karsten's; though: in fact he had transgressed: a few Prime Directives as I recall) ... led to Rick's departure in high dudgeon. Did contact him a bit later; always appreciated his wide range of well-stated koans.. thought then that the IGM had excoriated him on mainly.. pure pecksniffery, Lots of namesakes out there, but this be the Real one; Didn't know he also did G&S, confirmation that we were indeed.. on same page re most of the absurdities ..as have multiplied vastly ..since those pre-Shogunate, halcyon days. Thanks for reminder; guess I gotta look him up; see if he's maintained equanimity throughout the regression. A later locale. this one is vastly superior, in metric as well as delicious content--of course. YAN talent. Would that he had applied same in matters more visceral than mere Boolean exercises? Oh. Well. *Flash: re. WW-II: ~~One of our aircraft is missing~~ ... one of the in/out pair was missing;* let out at 5 am-ish; no. sign. til just now: ..missed dinner! ... worry starting to slither-in like some impending oration by a tiresome '14 nihilist.. but She's baaack; gets primo ahi tuna + small scolding and extended eye-contact (they indeed sense our emotional states. Just like the advanced-ones who pick out the soon-to-discorporate homo-saps.) Guess Cthulhu wasn't hungry..
Post #393,898 by pwhysall 8/30/14 4:48:06 AM Reply	I still have the email trail. KS and RM left because of their own (at the time; there's been a long time between then and now) pantywaisted and prima-donnaesque natures.
Post #393,909 by Ashton 8/30/14 6:24:20 PM Reply	My recollection may well be flawed.. but, I seem to recall the provocations were multi-sided, but the repartee ~Standard? (That is: hyperbole be no Stranger to our mixed-midst.) It is axiomatic too, that many possessed of those skillz peculiar to the taming of endless-Boolean-'expressions' (aka I.T. and many who ride in her) may have become so fascinated with logic's endless practical, machine-making possibilities.. That along-the-way, the adsorption of these arcane recipes necessary to the trade--that being an onerous travail of ever-expanding scope--rather less import? was given to the pedestrian aspects, subtleties of other kind: such as we call, Social Skillz. (Yes a rank generalization but, you know ... in cases where the fu shits..) Accept that your recollection of the two denouements in these parts is likely more complete than what I put into flash-memory. i do not J'Accuse! of churlish behaviour in these two soap operas--just thought the repartee ~expectable. (I did ride with one of the pair--in fact, to Rand's Cinco de Mayo revel in the Land of Oaks--even got to try out my fav phrase with a Russki/Ukraini? fellow reveler!) Concluded a few things, along the way. Hey, no one here is possessed of an underdeveloped ego-thing. Concur that one of these brouhahas developed for palpable reasons of said-ego trampling upon set-Rulez surrounding the techno: heresy then (yet guilt in evading a sane-Rule) thus a qed on that ostracism. Maybe the other case was of similar severity (?) Yet let it be noted that, in the lengthy dealings--seemingly for eons--with Him [who-must-not-be] Named; in all those efforts here, to partially civilize a {shudder} primitive: more patience and yes, kindness was expended by the many ... than might be found in any Love-In on Haight Street, in that Franciscan City of wealthy iniquity. We fucking Tried! and the failure was Not with the IGM. And, so it Goes.
Post #393,910 by Another Scott 8/30/14 6:37:29 PM Reply	The history is still there, but ... kmself rickmoen It looks like there was some dustup on the mailing list. That's not saved, but some of it was reposted. It's probably not worth going into it again unless one is really bored. We've lost lots of good people over the years, for reasonable and for stupid and for very unfortunate reasons. :-( Gotta enjoy each others' company while we can! Cheers, Scott.
Post #393,914 by Ashton 8/30/14 8:36:45 PM Reply	Indeed.. my unfinishable-koan is, 'Familiarity with contempt breeds ...'
Post #393,915 by malraux 8/30/14 9:22:48 PM Reply	Re: My recollection may well be flawed.. but, Moen was an unmitigated trolling jackass with a talent for deliberately misrepresenting someone's position just enough to get things inflamed, particularly if he thought he was smarter than thou (which as far as he was concerned pretty much included everyone). He was extra practiced at the "disgustingly personal insult oh no you misinterpreted me I wasn't calling you stupid, just your actions" schtick. Smarter than the average bear the man may be, but life's too short for putting up with that kind of intentional asshattery. Karsten was a much better sort, but with the same immense ego (not as common in our field as you may expect); opinion borne out by a shared brew and conversation when he drove through my neck of the woods once. This attitude amongst the Technocrati is much more common on your side of town than here, in my observation. And as I said Back Then, there was more to the story than the public edition. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #393,919 by Ashton 8/30/14 11:48:32 PM Reply	Correction: some recollections flawed. Yes I recall the fact of yours (and Peter's) direct clarifications via a bit of the unpublishable; agree that KMS may have exited disgruntled--but was not unfairly treated. As to RM, I see that my failure-to-grok matters may derive from my sense at the time: that the apparent-nastiness in ripostes (especially the ad-hominems) were not meant seriously; just games seemingly played ..within an arcane field? Mea culpa. His commentary meant seriously: of course your summary nullifies that misconception. Not much incentive to look him up, see if a leopard changed spots? got other chores. As to the Technocrati.. it seems that most now in bizness (or with home gadgetry) are forced to absorb much that they once thought they could evade. Even the MBAs. Unclear which side of this polygonal-town I inhabit, if premeditated nastiness is involved.. If I am missing the cream of the jest please inform if this locale is on the wrong side of the tracks or near the windowless Ivory Tower. FWIW, even generalizations like 'I.T.' I find worrisome, especially any presumptions that daily dedication to bit-matters? connotes any limitation of other abilities. Just a matter of degree of immersion, maybe. (From my POV, too: neither physics, math nor 'Science' attain anything like that faith-thing, insofar as certain topics are larger than those tools; just-as the 'social sciences' are smaller, and helpful only on statistical kinds of simple questions.) Someone certain of anything, probably needs to find some Alt-Gnostic collection of the like-minded. Honest argument there, isn't.
Post #393,932 by malraux 8/31/14 11:31:05 AM Reply	Your side of town == the Bay area I'm surprised San Fran doesn't sink into the ocean under the weight of all the ego in that town. I work with a guy originally from Michigan who spent a few years in Y-combinator out in SF. He confirms the nastiness of the attitudes out there and is glad to be back in Rational Land. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #393,952 by Ashton 8/31/14 6:18:06 PM Reply	Guilty-as-charged, Your Honor In penitence, all of the Greater-Bay-Area shall work towards the dismantling of the area formerly known as Silly Valley. Each Ego-Monument of silver-windowed Building-excess shall be deconstructed, the rubble dispersed (for enhancements to the cave-mouths of the new dwellings of the Many already dispossessed.) (We need not Salt-the-earth there, as well: the many tonnes of toxic chemical substances from The Fabs has salted it far beyond our poor powere to Salt-things.) Already we Crowd-fund a Neue University, through which the former Kapitans of Industry shall pass, that their citizenship may be restored. They shall read/be-Tested upon Baudelaire, Verlaine, Billy Collins, and similar sources of emotional maturity--else their pure Unobtainium VISA cards shall not be reactivated. There shall again be: Orchards as once there were, despite the Periodic-Chart-pestilence perpetrated by pewling popinjays. Will this suffice?
Post #393,953 by drook 8/31/14 6:20:49 PM Reply	Sounds good, get on that -- Drew
Post #393,955 by malraux 8/31/14 6:30:07 PM Reply	Re: Guilty-as-charged, Your Honor Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #393,961 by Another Scott 8/31/14 7:17:00 PM Reply	rofl.
Post #393,924 by pwhysall 8/31/14 6:04:25 AM Reply	It's an interesting case study in nerdy wankery RM was far, far more interested in being right than what was best for the group. I absolutely do not miss him; he contributed nothing of lasting worth to this collective, notwithstanding his undoubted technical chops. He treated this place as another venue for him to demonstrate his rhetorical and debating mastery, and honestly, when you're amongst people with whom you're supposed to be friends, who gives a fuck about that? Who needs the kind of dreary shithead who says things like "I think you'll find it's correctly referred to as 'GNU slash Linux', actually" when all we're trying to do is troubleshoot someone's mail server? Not us, that's for sure. KMS, OTOH, had his idiosyncrasies (eh, don't we all?) but was, on balance, a decent chap with interesting things to say, and who had a well-earned emotional investment here. We're poorer without him. I honestly think that if RM hadn't been around, KMS still would be.
Post #393,927 by static 8/31/14 8:02:44 AM Reply	I think you might be right. KS looked up to RM. He change subtly when RM deigned to grace us with his presence. And took exception to the fact that in essence we wouldn't worship RM. Wade. Just Add Story http://justaddstory.wordpress.com/
Post #393,933 by malraux 8/31/14 11:36:49 AM Reply	Re: It's an interesting case study in nerdy wankery Agreed on all points. RM was not a beneficial friend to KMS for sure. I'd forgotten about all the GNU/Linux crap. Bleargh. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #393,957 by drook 8/31/14 6:43:06 PM Reply	This article I just saw applies http://qz.com/258066/this-is-why-you-dont-hire-good-developers/ It's all good, but the relevant part starts at the heading "2. No jerks" -- Drew
Post #393,958 by malraux 8/31/14 7:07:07 PM Reply	Yep I've worked with one before. Worst work experience of my life, and management couldn't bring themselves to do the necessary. The whole company suffered for it. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #393,972 by pwhysall 9/1/14 1:49:37 AM Reply	Yep++ We had one (Scott has had the whole sordid story) and it took management ten. fucking. years. to get rid of them. The mood in the building the following day was noticeably lighter. Approximately 150 people work at our location.
Post #393,962 by Another Scott 8/31/14 7:41:15 PM Reply	Some really good stuff there. I thought she made a good case for many of her points. Especially if one is looking for a reasonably long-term hire. But how many places are looking for long-term hires these days? :-( Don't most companies only hire when they absolutely have to, when they have a particular project (that needs a particular skill-set) in mind? I didn't like the way she talked about "engineers" in terms of shipping products or something, but of course she's talking about CS-type engineers, so that's just me. ;-) #2 is great. #4 - Homogeneity is disastrous- is very important as well. People too often don't know what they don't know. In a fast-changing field, being surprised by something you didn't consider, or considered and pooh-poohed as stupid/not-important/a-waste-of-time, or had blinders about, is a *very* bad thing. Having a diversity of people with different interests and expertise is very important in that case. Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #393,963 by Ashton 8/31/14 8:01:08 PM 8/31/14 8:08:35 PM Reply	Saved. Simply brilliant scope, detail (and all the implications.) Even the links-within.. (seeing what this consummate Explainer 'Does') expand, further illustrate her already near-complete(?) Instruction-set. 'Implicit bias' is a gem; words around fizbuzz test; Dunning-Kruger effect beats every Pop-psych oversimplification--it's fucking-Science or I never aced a trick-question. Apropos to the entire RM discussion, Avoid the “genius assholes”, avoid the bitter and cynical, the bullies, the snobs. Don’t work with somebody who is going to be mean, unpleasant, or demeaning to their co-workers. There is no level of brilliance and productivity that can compensate for poisoning the morale of your team, and once a team culture is broken it is very hard to fix {{sigh}} Overall though, this essay well-describes a Daunting list of necessities for any (certifiably-competent) Interview-er. I'm betting that Laurie Voss is an Outlier amidst outliers; that No One (OK maybe a few?) Here has ever encountered such a one ... amidst own n+1 "interviews". What think? Shall give this a more thorough reading anon; it limns (also.. for me) the level of intricacy which is not-optional: at the peak of this 'IT' pyramid (where the true-Interviewer must go all meta-) insofar as having to evaluate (hopefully sometimes!) a Superior mind AND regular mind-set on all these er, orthogonal vertices--much of that in metaphor-land! I could soo Not-do-That! even infinitesimally.. :-/ Reminds of my interview for the exact-Spot I aimed to enter, thence sinecure--upon quick realization, via the wonder of it all: that I could never abide a bizness enviro (before the word got coined) nor probably, any huge-Organization: except This One wherein: a One did Not "have to Lie a lot, on a daily basis." (Also never forgot: I had indeed Lucked-in!) Many of the tales here have only enhanced the Contrast, and I feel for the plight of the countless good people so oft-screwed by, either the portable office-mystique? or via mis-cast 'Supervision' or ... you know. Thanks.. you sleuth gooder n'gooder. Ed:oTyp Edited by Ashton Aug. 31, 2014, 08:08:35 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #393,980 by drook 9/1/14 8:35:35 AM Reply	Re: interviewing a superior mind The interviews I've done have all been for sufficiently low-level positions - developers, business analysts, project managers ... unimportant people - that the process had already weeded out the superior minds before they got to me. -- Drew
Post #394,002 by Ashton 9/1/14 10:32:45 PM Reply	Conundrum that.. means you don't have to s t r e t c h OTOH You've got the IGM to practice on..! :-0
Post #394,011 by drook 9/2/14 1:07:31 PM Reply	I'm just gonna leave this here http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=3470 -- Drew
Post #394,013 by pwhysall 9/2/14 1:42:28 PM Reply	Hoo boy Nailed it.
Post #394,024 by boxley 9/2/14 3:46:36 PM Reply	shoulda whipped out the rfc Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep

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