There isn't any reason for outrage

Post #347,435 by jay 9/7/11 9:42:35 AM Reply	There isn't any reason for outrage Hoffa said something about voting the Tea party republicans out of power. Fox News cut the context and mangled the quote, making it sound like a call for violence against the Tea party people. The whole thing is manufactured. Jay
Post #347,437 by beepster 9/7/11 10:17:56 AM Reply	Interesting "Obama, here is your army...He will be inspired but he needs your help...keep the eye on the prize, let's take these sons-o-bitches out". From the President of the Teamsters. You can't cut that any differently. He's not the President of grandma's bridge club. What more context do you need...an org with a long history of violence using wartime analogies and closing with a rousing "take-em out" NOT VOTE THEM OUT...take them out. And the complete dismissal by press sec...after Obama's camp demanded apologies during the campaign and talked about "civil" discourse being paramount following Tucson. Trying to blame fox news for this will not work. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,439 by rcareaga 9/7/11 10:22:23 AM Reply	"You can't cut that any differently." Oh really? Then why do you suppose the remarks were edited to remove the exhortation to vote?
Post #347,450 by beepster 9/7/11 11:09:09 AM Reply	On that... Speaking of change, my favorite part of the Hoffa story is the leftÂs defense that he was talking specifically about voting when he called for taking those tea-party Âsons of bitchesÂ out. ThatÂs super, but the whole point of the Ânew toneÂ demagoguery after Tucson was that intent doesnÂt matter. Go re-read PalinÂs Facebook post from March 2010 showcasing the crosshairs map that the media would make famous 10 months later. Sample quote: ÂThis is just the first salvo in a fight to elect people across the nation who will bring common sense to Washington.Â Elections. Voting. And yet it didnÂt matter to our liberal betters after Giffords was shot; the argument then was that the political ÂclimateÂ in America had become so heated that it was irresponsible to use violent rhetoric or imagery even in service to a perfectly pedestrian nonviolent call for voter turnout. Remember? http://www.freerepub...ers/2774468/posts Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,451 by jay 9/7/11 11:10:39 AM Reply	You should know better then that Your repeating a quote with not one but two sets of ellipses in it. Multiple sentences from a speech cut down to make it look one like violent phrase. Hoffa was giving a get out the speech vote, so the bits about an army and inspiring people are to be expected. Saying "take out" rather then "vote out" is a bit unfortunate, but it's perfectly clear what he meant from the context. Only by cutting out the "Everybody has a vote" part can any outrage be manufactured here. Jay
Post #347,463 by beepster 9/7/11 3:58:45 PM Reply	covered in a different post Palin was not given the same consideration wrt to the "target" picture. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,464 by jay 9/7/11 4:49:40 PM Reply	She only got hammered because of the unfortunate connection Palin uses (or at least used to use) a lot of gun imagery in her speech. It wasn't just the crosshairs, one of her oft repeated phrases when faced by adversity is "Don't retreat, reload." Honestly though, She took more flack then she deserved for what was really a minor thing, it was just an horribly unfortunate accident that one of the people she had in the crosshairs was actually shot. Neither was in the range of the right wing loons who are saying that Obama is neither an American nor a valid president, making gun gestures with their hands and saying somebody should "take out" Obama. When they try to claim they are talking about voting it's simply a farcical cover for inciting violence. Jay
Post #347,469 by beepster 9/7/11 6:27:44 PM Reply	Continued rationalization somehow, this time, its different. regardless of the fact that its the Teamsters, with a proven history of connections to violence and organized crime. yep. sure. I'm buying it. That covers Palin..now what about the McCain angle..with the demanded apology, even though he hadn't arrived yet..for Cunningham using his middle name? Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,497 by jay 9/8/11 7:45:14 AM Reply	Cunningham's speech was a string of insults Cunningham's speech was a string of insults directed at Obama. The ones that brought up his connections to questionable people in Chicago where fair game, the mess of personal insults and covert racism not so much. McCain didn't even wait for anybody to object, he rejected the speech on his own before anybody asked him. And yes, this is different. Should he have said it? No. Is it big enough or important enough or offensive enough to get worked up over? No. Palin's problem was overblown, this one is manufactured out of thin air. The whole thing hinges on miss quoting him to make "take out" sound like a threat when he was clearly talking about voting. Jay
Post #347,499 by beepster 9/8/11 8:29:20 AM Reply	So now way after, the Palin thing was overblown..and that makes this one better...on exactly the same issue. Someone please tell the folks blaming fox news for making it up that they should be apologizing to Palin and Rush now. Otherwise, point stands. Man speaking for org with violent history makes violent, war imagery laced speech and since he's a dem, he gets a pass. News at 11. Had the same thing happened at a TP rally...we'd be listening to it again for a month. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,528 by jay 9/8/11 2:28:49 PM Reply	Rush deserves it in full Rush deserves it in full. Here is a typical quote that is carefully designed to be just short of advocating violence. "The Texans are very patient people, but the real Texans are not the people in that ditch down there. REAL TEXANS are PUTTING ON THEIR CAMOUFLAGE GEAR and getting ready to go out there and GO HUNTING. you know, hunting season is coming up. At some point REAL TEXANS ARE GOING TO GET FED UP WITH WHAT'S GOING ON DOWN THERE and it's going to be REAL FUN TO WATCH, IF YOU GET MY DRIFT, ...a-hem..." The context for this was Rush talking about Camp Casey, the semi-permanent base for the picketers outside Bush Jr's residence in Texas. He is perfectly clear he isn't talking about counter protests here or something like that. It is however carefully phrased so that he isn't exactly calling for violence. This is the sort of rhetoric that people should find offensive. Jay
Post #347,535 by beepster 9/8/11 3:51:17 PM Reply	Ah.. but a guy (named, by chance, Jimmy Hoffa) saying "take em out"..even couched with the prior sentence of vote...is squeaky clean. Ok. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,542 by jay 9/8/11 6:34:04 PM Reply	Stop trying to make all offenses equivalent Stop trying to make all offenses equivalent, they are not. Rush gave an entire paragraph that was a subtle encouragement to violence, Hoffa used a single word that could be construed as violent if you ignored the rest of what he said. As far as offenses go, they are orders of magnitude apart. Hoffa's deserves a quick tsk-tsk at best, Rush's deserves widespread derision and mockery. Jay
Post #347,545 by Ashton 9/8/11 8:01:59 PM Reply	Precisely.
Post #347,549 by beepster 9/8/11 9:59:41 PM Reply	Fine will settle for retraction of every story regarding the target map of sarah palin. You can have rush. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,550 by Another Scott 9/8/11 10:03:58 PM Reply	BinaryBot is Binary. :-/
Post #347,551 by beepster 9/9/11 5:07:50 PM Reply	better be binary than 2 faced. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,553 by hnick 9/9/11 5:20:16 PM Reply	Re: better be binary than 2 faced. When you're (binary & biased), you only have one face. It sorta comes with the system...
Post #347,554 by beepster 9/9/11 5:33:22 PM Reply	much easier than spending alot of time trying to explain how something exactly the same is somehow different now. believe a couple of elections ago it was called the flip flop. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,556 by crazy 9/9/11 6:18:39 PM Reply	No It was called rationally processing new information to cause a change in direction, something sane thinking people appreciate.
Post #347,577 by beepster 9/10/11 10:50:40 AM Reply	only sane people inside the beltway and in the press. and I think all else have a different idea of sanity. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,565 by boxley 9/9/11 8:08:32 PM Reply	now beep you know the rule if its our guy its totally innocuous, if its your guy he needs to be arrested Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #347,578 by beepster 9/10/11 10:52:51 AM Reply	I know that rule, you know that rule everyone else here seems to not know that rule. s'ok. This is one of those times I was referencing a couple of years ago when I mentioned I was going to enjoy this immensely. Yep, now its different (even if it isn't). Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #347,587 by lincoln 9/10/11 2:14:52 PM Reply	So you finally admit that your guys are Republicans Bout frickin' time. What took you so long? "Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Post #347,589 by boxley 9/10/11 2:19:07 PM Reply	my guys are the ones who point fingers and laugh at obama and the republicans as they are both fucking useless except to enrich their benefactors at our expense Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
Post #347,661 by mmoffitt 9/12/11 9:16:39 AM Reply	Yep and the really sad thing is. Both of them have the same benefactors.
Post #347,597 by beepster 9/10/11 4:01:37 PM Reply	Did anyone reference republicans? I certainly didn't. I did say that the change in power was going to change all of your positions..which this latest episode has proven in spades. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.

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