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New Safe to upgrade from Debian 5 (lenny) to Testing (squeeze)?
I'd like to update many of my packages to later versions (e.g. the Flash player) and it seems like moving to Testing is the best way to do that.

I'm reading through http://www.debian.or...ch-basico.en.html but need to study it more (like setting sources.list).

I understand aptitude safe-upgrade will save one from things like deleting apt by mistake - http://www.linuxques...grade-apt-724384/

Are there any other gotchas? I've generally had good success in upgrading Kubuntu except for the latest when KDE4.x was too much for my T41. I assume Debian would be even less likely to break on an upgrade to Testing.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I'd say Testing is the least best alternative.
I've had more breakage when running Testing than when running Unstable.

If I were you, I'd move to Unstable. Things will break, as they will in Testing, but the nature of the beast is that they stay broken for shorter periods of time, due to the "churn" that Unstable has.

Once something's busted in Testing, it can stay busted for ages.
New Ah. Good points. Sink or swim. It's tempting...
Is it reasonable to assume that critical software for an old Thinkpad T41 is less likely to be broken than, say, stuff for the latest and greatest video card? My main fear with going to Unstable is that I'd end up with a broken internet connection or a scrambled screen so that I'd have little choice but to reinstall. I would hope that most of that has pretty much been locked down, so ending up with a "dead" system would be unlikely.

I understand there are no guarantees. ;-)

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I have to agree with Peter.
I've been running Sid ... since the start of this T61. I've had all of about 6 hours of using an alternative desktop.

Networking has NEVER busted to the point of manual edits not working.

Of course i recently got bit by those manual edits trying to get NetworkManager to manage all of my connections. I got it, but not until I had to read and read and read.


Scott, quit "worrying", Sid is not worth worrying about.

Like I've said before, Sid is better then Fedora Core (any version). Sid is better than Slack by a long shot. Plus you only have to ask here if there are problems. We have a couple of people here.
New Thanks. Upgrade in progress. Fingers crossed. :-)
New Bleah... Finger crossed! Lets hope it worked.
Let me guess...

Gnome-Core isn't install-able and Gnome-Office is removed...

along with Yelp, Update-Manager and other things.

Just this past few hours things became "red-flagged" to do an "apt-get dist-upgrade" or an "aptitude full-upgrade"

He is hoping things went well. Timing, its everything, huh Jake?

This is the first time its been horked in a few weeks... gah! These are the times *I* wait.
Expand Edited by folkert July 19, 2009, 10:05:49 AM EDT
New Seems Ok.
Not sure I did it "right", but it seems to be working.

apt-get install netselect-apt

netselect-apt -n unstable

(I tried to backup my existing sources.list but couldn't figure out how...)

cp ./sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list
apt-get update

aptitude safe-upgrade
(trundle and download a bunch of stuff...)

(Some stuff still didn't seem quite right. Bite the bullet...)
apt-get upgrade
(trundle and download a bunch of stuff...)

(Some stuff still didn't see quite right.)
Synaptic - Mark All Upgrades -> Apply
(trundle and download a bunch of stuff...)

Reboot this AM. Dig up wireless key. Seems to be working.

The trackpad seems a little touchy, but I'll worry about that later.

SFSG.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New apt-get is really good at fixing things.
I had a funky Ubuntu upgrade some years ago. The first dist-upgrade didn't upgrade everything, and I was left in a kind-of between-version limbo. With nothing left to lose, I did an update/dist-upgrade cycle again and it sorted itself out. Only time it's ever happened to me.

And if you get really stuck apt-get -f install can also work miracles.

Wade.

Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
New I wouldn't mix aptitude and apt-get
I've had funny results with that.
New what he said
as I've had funny results there also.
I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose freewill.
New Thanks, both of you. I was trying to be cautious...
I'll have to read up on this stuff more.

I appreciate the voices of experience. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Yes, 'tis a good bit of advice there.
Until Aptitude and Apt-get functionality come together (which is being done slowly)

Either use:

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade

OR

aptitude update && aptitude safe-upgrade && aptitude full-upgrade



Those live are equivalent for each one, they will act differently, but in the long run give exactly the same results.

And those lives are "just for demonstration"

You should really only do the update and first upgrade on the same line, then the second one.

For Apt-get I always add "-u" or "apt-get -u upgrade" which shows me everything its going to do.
New Thanks, Greg. Always appreciated.
New That's a good point about aptitude.
It always seemed a little funky to me, as if it has its own copy of parts of the main apt database. I stopped using years ago. OTOH, I've never seen any problems mixing apt-get and synaptic. They always seem to play nice together.

Wade.

Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
New synaptic is just a gui on top of apt-get...
...hence what apt-get sees and does, synaptic sees and does.

It's fine to mix those, and I do.
New Generally working well, but some annoyances...
I haven't been locked out of this T41 Debian unstable install yet, and I update it every day or so. So far, so good.

I have some questions though.

1) As discussed previously, USB hardware is broken on this laptop. Is that the reason why my Synaptic touch pad doesn't work fully? For instance, I can't tap on the pad area to click or double-click. I installed (something like) gtouchpad-config-... (which I can't find at the moment), but while it shows some configuration options, it doesn't respond to clicking. I see some notes about clicking being disabled by default with an Xorg touchpad driver in 2008, but can't figure out how to enable it. What's confusing is after one update a week or so ago, touchpad clicking was working but the pointer motion was too sensitive. I adjusted it to make the pointer less sensitive, but then clicking stopped working.

Help?

2) Wireless networking works after rebooting, and for several hours of continuous use, but if I come back the next morning it doesn't work (no flashing of the antenna indicator light). I do not have sleep or hibernation enabled.

Along these lines, there are 3 ways of checking the status of networking on the Gnome bar at the top of the screen: 1) The icon on the right (which for me always shows a red X (No network connection); 2) System -> Preferences -> Network Connections; 3) System -> Administration -> Network. They all show something different, or no information at all.

The most reliable way for me to setup and restart the wireless network connection with the GUI is via #3. But it almost always gives me a error like "Unable to save settings" whenever I change anything or select a previously saved configuration. It defaults to showing "Roaming mode enabled" even when it's not.

Why don't these three widgets show the same thing? Why aren't the settings "sticky" in an error-free way? Why do I lose my connection overnight?

3) Adobe's Flash 10.x on Iceweasel is bonkered. I installed the latest version via the Debian update notifier. When it's enabled it works, but my CPU load goes to 100% and this poor little thing gets really hot. On disabling it, Iceweasle immediately closes and the CPU load returns to normal. Is there a better Flash player for Firefox/Iceweasel?

So far, I'm impressed. But I don't know whether the issues I'm having are due to the USB issues with this laptop (and thus worth trying on a better piece of hardware), or if this is normal teething issues on Sid.

Thanks very much.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Ok, some questions...
1) I don't know, I'll do some looking since I have the same touchpad. Mine works as I'd expect with scrolling along the side of the track pad as well and single and double clicking working fine.

While spelunking around around for the Networking stuff... I found in "Startup Applications" (see below for location)

I found this as a Startup Application:

Name: Touchpad
Command: gsynaptics-init --sm-disable
Comment: Set your touchpad preferences

This becomes a "notification area applet" and easily lets me change behavior and function. Works a treat.


2) I've switch to using Network Manager for everything. Which is basically your "#2"

Look in "System -> Preferences -> Startup Applications"

Is "Network Manager" listed?

If not, add this:

Name: Network Manager
Command: nm-applet --sm-disable
Comment: Control your network connections

I've changed my "/etc/network/interfaces" to look effectively like this:

################
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
################

Everything else is controlled via NM and NM also manages eth0 but not lo.

Wireless is good to go for me. Also, what Kernel are you using?

linux-image-2.6.30-1-686 v2.6.30-4 Works-a-plenty for me "automagically" as well Everything except things like (for instance) virtual box modules and such are included. (which you can add later at any time right now)


3) Wooo-boy. I had a problem with 100% utilization with Flash due to Video card issues.

What Video Card and version of X server related to it?
I have an (from lspci):
Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 0c)

Using (from dpkg -l | grep xorg-video): xserver-xorg-video-intel v2:2.8.0-2


What version of Iceweasel?
I am using: 3.0.12-1

What version of flashplugin-nonfree?
I am using: 1:2.6

which installs:

File name: libflashplayer.so
Shockwave Flash 10.0 r22
New The first thing I do . . .
. . is uninstall Network Manager (it's only installed if the GUI is installed). As far as I'm concerned it belongs on notebooks only, if there, and is a major problem anywhere else. For one thing - network cards have disappeared on me with NM.

Network Manager is a Red Hat product and I never did like the Red Hat approach to development.
New A T41 *IS* a laptop
err... instead of a T43 (which still is)

And though yes I agree the NM is a RedHat abortion...

It beats having to have five different things to deal with Wired, Wiresless, VPN, PPP and "DSL" connections.
Expand Edited by folkert Aug. 8, 2009, 05:33:01 PM EDT
New Thanks for the baby steps.
I'm still feeling my way along in the dark in much of this stuff, unfortunately...

1) No "Touchpad" app is in System -> Preferences -> Startup Applications.

I'd read about gsynaptics-init on doing a Google search earlier. Its sourceforge page - http://gsynaptics.sourceforge.jp/ - says use GPointing-Device-Settings (which is the thing I was trying to think of in the earlier post.

http://live.gnome.or...ingDeviceSettings

I couldn't figure out how to install it from the .tar.gz, so I used apt-get to install it. It shows the config dialog, but doesn't enable clicking or double-clicking on the pad area. Should I try gsynaptics-init instead?

2) Network Manager is installed in S->P->SA. My e/n/interfaces is:

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug wlan0
iface wlan0 inet dhcp
# wireless-* options are implemented by the wireless-tools package
wireless-mode managed
wireless-essid myessid
wireless-key1 mykey


The last 4 lines are indented by a tab stop. I've seen this in other text config files too. It's incorrect, isn't it? Could that be causing problems?

Another stupid newbie question:

What do I need to use to be able to edit and overwrite config files that are owned by root? I see a "root terminal" app under the GUI menu, but I'd like to be able to easily do it from a GUI file manager and GUI editor. I understand that I don't have permission to change root files, but I know there are ways to have the system prompt for root passwords - I just can't seem to ever remember the hocus-pocus to make that happen.

The kernel I have been booting is the latest that gets installed (though in one case I had to use the previous from the boot menu):

vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-686 (I can't find the linux-image... filename at the moment.)

3) Video:
VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV250 [Mobility FireGL 9000] (rev 02)

Xorg: There are about 2 dozen drivers listed for various chipsets and VESA, etc. The ATI-specific line is:

ii xserver-xorg-video-ati 1:6.12.2-3 X.Org X server -- ATI display driver wrapper

(The Radeon line has the same version number.)

Iceweasel: Debian-3.0.12-1

I can't seem to find flashplugin-nonfree. The Shockwave Flash version is 10.0.r32

Perhaps it's the ATI driver that's causing the Flash/100% CPU problems?

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Thanks for the baby steps.
The last 4 lines are indented by a tab stop. I've seen this in other text config files too. It's incorrect, isn't it? Could that be causing problems?
No, that will not cause problems. They're probably indented (as mine are on my Linux server) to make each different interface stand out by being "undented."

What do I need to use to be able to edit and overwrite config files that are owned by root? I see a "root terminal" app under the GUI menu, but I'd like to be able to easily do it from a GUI file manager and GUI editor. I understand that I don't have permission to change root files, but I know there are ways to have the system prompt for root passwords - I just can't seem to ever remember the hocus-pocus to make that happen.
Instead of using the command vi /etc/network/interfaces, you want to sudo vi /etc/network/interfaces (or whatever root-owned file you're interested in.) You'll then be prompted for a password; this is your password, not root's. You really shouldn't even know what root's password is. Everything you need to do to root-owned files, you can do through sudo.
-Mike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New Thanks Mike!
New The only real reason...
not to have those in the network interfaces is... auto-managed rather than specified.

Mike does things that way as he'll never change.

The reason you have the "root terminal" desktop short cut is that you are running SID.

Sid assumes a lot.

I just ignore it.
     Safe to upgrade from Debian 5 (lenny) to Testing (squeeze)? - (Another Scott) - (22)
         I'd say Testing is the least best alternative. - (pwhysall) - (13)
             Ah. Good points. Sink or swim. It's tempting... - (Another Scott) - (12)
                 I have to agree with Peter. - (folkert) - (11)
                     Thanks. Upgrade in progress. Fingers crossed. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (10)
                         Bleah... Finger crossed! Lets hope it worked. - (folkert) - (9)
                             Seems Ok. - (Another Scott) - (8)
                                 apt-get is really good at fixing things. - (static)
                                 I wouldn't mix aptitude and apt-get - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                     what he said - (beepster) - (5)
                                         Thanks, both of you. I was trying to be cautious... - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                             Yes, 'tis a good bit of advice there. - (folkert) - (3)
                                                 Thanks, Greg. Always appreciated. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                 That's a good point about aptitude. - (static) - (1)
                                                     synaptic is just a gui on top of apt-get... - (pwhysall)
         Generally working well, but some annoyances... - (Another Scott) - (7)
             Ok, some questions... - (folkert) - (6)
                 The first thing I do . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                     A T41 *IS* a laptop - (folkert)
                 Thanks for the baby steps. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                     Re: Thanks for the baby steps. - (mvitale) - (2)
                         Thanks Mike! -NT - (Another Scott)
                         The only real reason... - (folkert)

God help us when the effects of "switch" are toted up.
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