Negotiating tips?

Post #265,137 by dbishop 8/17/06 10:07:59 AM Reply	Negotiating tips? I'm currently contracting. I'm expecting an offer to come aboard full-time. Due to some misaddressed email, I just found out what I'm currently getting about 60% of the bill rate. What should I look for in terms of a full-time salary?
Post #265,141 by jbrabeck 8/17/06 10:12:36 AM Reply	If you're going to be receiving full benefits Look for around 40% of bill rate. During Y2K, I didn't know the bill rate. When I found out I realized that i was only geting 20% (Of course I was three steps removed from client) A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #265,142 by Another Scott 8/17/06 10:14:19 AM Reply	Supposedly you should ignore the percentages. [link\|http://www.contractoruk.com/news/002397.html\|Contractor UK]: Contractors often fixate on agency percentages, but real advantage comes from offering a unique skill. Without a USP (Unique Selling Point) agents and clients can go elsewhere to fulfil the contract. It is up to the contractor to understand the market and create a USP from skills at their disposal. This may be knowledge of an obscure coding language or a promotional technique. Dorney says his USP is to engage the client during the interview and make them feel like the project has already started with him at the helm. You want them to cite a number first, but of course, they want you to cite a number first. HTH a bit. Good luck! Cheers, Scott.
Post #265,146 by broomberg 8/17/06 10:21:20 AM Reply	What should you look for or what should you try for? If with benefits, try for 70% of current bill rate. That will essentially cost them 10% less than they are paying you now, but they are not fearful of you going elsewhere all the time and now actually are in charge of you. Not that you should expect to actually get it, but it can't hurt to try. Use that as an opening number, and let them come back with something.
Post #265,148 by folkert 8/17/06 10:26:08 AM Reply	This is the advice I would go for. Let them think they are in the drivers seat. Is the 60% not livable? Or would you like be at 70%. I 60% is livable, then the 70% would be cake( or pie) with a really nice topping. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #265,151 by dbishop 8/17/06 10:42:07 AM Reply	That's what I was looking for Now I know what they're starting from. I've heard from other people who accepted offers after coming from the same firm that they were happy with what they got. Should know by Monday.
Post #265,153 by Another Scott 8/17/06 10:42:36 AM Reply	One more thing. Keep in the back of your mind that they might figure out the fact that they sent you the percentage already. I don't know how that affects things, but surely it does. IOW, don't assume that you know more than they do. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #265,155 by dbishop 8/17/06 10:44:50 AM Reply	I just don't want to know less
Post #265,158 by boxley 8/17/06 10:47:40 AM Reply	ignore the bill rate you are not looking to contract directly but be employed, a minimum base is what you are bringing home now plus better benefits. Thats your floor. Ask them what the range is for the position min/max. If midway is a plus accept it. They dont like to pay in the highest part of the range. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #265,162 by jbrabeck 8/17/06 11:09:31 AM Reply	That would be a nice floor But if he is currently paying his own benefits and now the company will be paying them, then his getting current wages + benefits would amount to a ~40% pay hike. (Aren't benefits computed to be about 40% of salary?) I would anticipate an offer that would lower the wages an amount offset by granting of benefits, with net result of zero, or hopefully a slight net gain. And if it is a "full time position" with a contracting company, you're still just a temp employee... A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #265,167 by bepatient 8/17/06 11:43:24 AM Reply	Combo...^^^has an important point it may be great to get 70% of the bill rate...but if that puts you at the 90% mark in the positions salary range you will 1) most likely get lower COL increases and 2) make yourself more expendable in a downsize and 3)upset alot of co-workers who will eventually find out what they paid you (should their salary be less). Both situations need to be weighed...is the point. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #265,191 by broomberg 8/17/06 3:11:36 PM Reply	Crappy reasons 1) most likely get lower COL increases Ya mean it'll take longer to get where you already are? No, umm, ya mean if you accept less to start off with it'll take less time to get where you are? Umm, no, ummm, (I need a time machine and paradox checker to understand this argument). 2) make yourself more expendable in a downsize Ya mean someone should strive to be cheaper and less of a target? I thought you should strive for excellance and value, which in turn makes you cheap at any price. 3)upset alot of co-workers who will eventually find out what they paid you (should their salary be less). The attitude of random possibly semi-competent people should affect how you negotiate? That's insane. Sure, will knowledge that you make a certain percentage more than them come out? Eventually. And before that point, you'll have shown how your skill-set and attitude is worth it, which means they have something to shoot for when their turn comes. Which should not limit what you get at all.
Post #265,194 by folkert 8/17/06 3:47:49 PM Reply	Union Shop, maybe? But I agree with you on this, broom. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #265,198 by jbrabeck 8/17/06 4:27:14 PM Reply	Now I'm totally confused... (normal occurance it seems) Let's put some numbers to the scenerio: 1. I'm working as an independent contractor and am being paid $100/hr. I pay my own medical and taxes. Company wants to hire me as an employee with full benefits. What should I expect to be paid. 2. I'm working as a subcontractor, and am being paid $100/hr. I am paying my own medical and taxes. I find out that the company that hold the contract is pimping me out for $200/hr. Company (one that I'm working at) wants to hire me as a full time employee with full benefits. (Assume that if I know my billing rate that the company would know my paid rate.) What should I expect to be paid? 3. Combination of the two above. Only change is that the company I am subcontracting thru wants be to become a full time employee. Should I be expecting $100/hr + benefits or a lesser amount (how much) + benefits? A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #265,202 by boxley 8/17/06 5:26:38 PM Reply	a contractor isnt an employee its situational, what does an employee in you neck of the woods eith your skills make? An HR person spends a lot of time determining that. A division boss who wants to hire a contractor to do a temporary task does not. Apples and Oranges. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #265,256 by jbrabeck 8/18/06 8:48:20 AM Reply	Lets start from the top again Opening statement was "I'm contracting and expecting an offer to come onboard fulltime. What should I expect as an offer?". Then we seemed to wander all over, so I listed three scenerios. Based on the scenerio, what should someone expect? A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #265,262 by bepatient 8/18/06 9:29:03 AM Reply	No. Should have been clearer If you go in and they are grading you x and your salary is going to be in the 95% range of grade x...you need to negotiate to be made level y more than you need to give back dollars. While you may think my reasoning funny or non-seq I can tell you what I've seen in practice. Higher payed in lower grades get scrutinized differently, all other things being equal they will get less on the annuals. At review time being at 100% of grade and not having been promoted is viewed as a negative. Or...if you are at 90..and you see 95% as a possibility you could also go for >non-financials< like and extra weeks vacation. Peer group is less of an issue unless its a team that you are playing in. Point in first paragragh is that you should try to be placed in the higher group first. Personally, I too could give a rat's patooty what anyone in the org thinks. Thats what makes me so attractive :-) Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #265,358 by broomberg 8/18/06 9:51:42 PM Reply	Agreed now that you put it that way I hit the top of my range a few years ago. They extended the range a couple of time just for me. And then no more.

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