Humorous...

Post #263,398 by Simon_Jester 8/2/06 9:59:19 AM Reply	Humorous... While the world holds Israel to this standard, things become curiously silent when it\ufffds time to hold Hezbollah responsible for its conduct of war. Hardly a word has escaped from the U.N. or Europe on the 2,500 missiles that have rained down upon Israeli civilians, deliberately targeted by Hezbollah. Those attacks have displaced more than 300,000 civilians, a fact the global community and the mainstream media ignore. [...] The Lebanese caught in this vise should seek redress in Beirut. Unfortunately, the same global community that castigates Israel for unintentional collateral damage has let the Lebanese government off the hook for failing to disarm Hezbollah, as demanded by Security Council resolution 1559. Had the Saniora government done so, this war would never have started. And while the Lebanese Army would have difficulty with that task, Beirut never asked for any assistance in meeting its obligations. I find it humorous...because Israel never asked for help either. While it's people were being displaced from rockets raining down -- and where the world would've condemn the actions of Hezbollah -- Israel responded by raining death down on others. So why should the world provide compassion to Israel if Israel isn't will to provide compassion to the Lebanese?
Post #263,402 by jake123 8/2/06 10:27:33 AM Reply	Because they're special. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #263,542 by bluke 8/3/06 6:43:03 AM Reply	Yep Otherwise how can you explain the world's obsession with Israel, a country of 7 million people smaller then NJ. As Mark Twain said: The Jews constitute but 1% of the human race ... It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly be heard of; but he is heard of, has always been heard of... His contributions to the world's list of great names are away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvellous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose... the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone...The Jew saw them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no dulling of his alert mind. All things are mortal but the Jew... What is the secret of his immortality?"
Post #263,677 by Ashton 8/3/06 7:11:19 PM Reply	Love. It. Last night, a magnificent performance of the [link\|http://www.beauxartstrio.org/\| Beaux Arts Trio] (of the stellar Schubert Op 100. Recorded at Indiana U. in 1986.) Three Jews. Then.. all those physicists et alia. Yep, as a post-toddler, initially adsorbing the prejudices cast in snarky speech-stone of my 'elders' - I could never find out What-it-Was that.. added the category 'Jew' to the lengthy rollcall of Muricans' xenophobic Hates-List (??) (Actually I asked.. a few times - got back Microsoft-grade doublespeak; OK this was pre-M$ but That's what I recall it sounding like. Stopped asking, at least of any 'locals'.) Currently, I notice a similar regression re 'smart Asian students' kicking-ass of the i-Pod-zoned-out crop of WASPS (white anglo-saxon protesters.) In brief, while in the US 'ethnicity' is quite enough for ostracism-by-degree - I've found no cohesive rationale for the 'Jew' class of obloquy - how it differs? from the standard knee-jerk process which issues a [-] to anyone not-just-like-Me. I suppose this 'nonspecificality' is a Good Thing, in that Jews are just other Niggers, Spics, Liberals, Commies and the like - among the (48% of the [voting 48%]) who colored all the States Red (with a little help from Diebold.) Equal-Opportunity Dissing, then: we're nothing if not consisently shallow. And gullible. No words of revealed wisdom re the present conflagration - what can one say that's new? ... about 'adults' perpetually slaughtering over, Which is the Real* Prince of Peace?* As for air-conditioning deserts like Las Vegas and the M.E., words fail again.
Post #263,525 by bluke 8/3/06 12:12:13 AM Reply	When rockets are raining down ... How much is the world's condemnation worth? Is the world's condemnation going to stop Hezbollah's rockets? The UN didn't exactly try to enforce resolution 1559 to disarm Hezbollah did it? The Jewish population still remembers WWII and the holocaust where the world stood idly by and allowed 6 million Jews to be killed. More recently the world stood by and allowed almost 1 million Rwandans to be massacred.
Post #263,531 by bepatient 8/3/06 1:15:11 AM Reply	Excuse me? I believe quite a few allied soldiers died in WW2. Don't believe I'd call that sitting idly by. And there is a difference...Hez rockets are doing exactly as described...raining down...most missing everything. Israeli "rockets" are precision guided munitions and generally hit their targets. In one strike, Israel killed as many civilians as the "raining rockets" have killed in the entire conflict. Don't play this card, it won't do you any good. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,539 by bluke 8/3/06 6:27:04 AM Reply	Not to save the Jews The allies couldn't even spare a few bombs to bomb the train tracks to Auschwitz during the war to slow down the number of people getting to Auschwitz. The Allied soldiers that died did not do so to save the Jews, they did it to defeat Germany. Before the war the US turned back the [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_St._Louis\|SS St. Louis] sending it's 950 Jewish passengers back to Germany to their death.
Post #263,556 by bepatient 8/3/06 9:18:30 AM Reply	Ahh...so we didn't specifically target the camps and infrastructure...and this equates a lack of caring about what was going on. Interesting perspective. Hell, blame the current war on us too...since we were supportive of the creation of Israel following the war...and if we would have let you continue to suffer without those borders to dispute, there would be no current Lebanon conflict. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,559 by bluke 8/3/06 9:27:28 AM Reply	Yes Jewish leaders begged Roosevelt to bomb the train tracks and he refused. He had no interest in saving the Jews from the Holocaust.
Post #263,563 by bepatient 8/3/06 9:34:42 AM Reply	Certainly... making him the largest anti-semite of all time right behind Hitler (right???)...simply because his thought was to destroy Germany as quickly as possible, with all possible assets focussed on that one objective. My how the mind works sometimes. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,576 by bluke 8/3/06 9:59:16 AM Reply	Give me a break He couldn't spare a few bombs for the train tracks? Would that really have affetced the war effort? I didn't make him out to be a big anti-semite, what I said is that he was not interested in saving the Jews, a big difference.
Post #263,586 by bepatient 8/3/06 10:21:33 AM Reply	Really. Is there? I'd say the statement that he didn't care to save them (yours) would qualify as someone indifferent to their extermination...which I would translate into anti-semite pretty quickly. No, you didn't >say< it...but implication is certainly there. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,589 by bluke 8/3/06 10:30:24 AM 8/3/06 10:34:33 AM Reply	America and the Holocaust: Draw your own conclusions [link\|http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/filmmore/reference/primary/index.html\|America and the Holocaust] President Roosevelt'S Apparent Reluctance To Help Europe'S Jews Entry from Assistant Secretary of State Breckinridge Long's diary in which he notes that President Roosevelt supports his policy of encouraging consulates to "postpone and postpone and postpone" the granting of visas A report written by Adoph Held, the president of the American Jewish Labor Committee recounting President Roosevelt's 29-minute meeting on December 8, 1942 with a small delegation of American Jewish Leaders After the State Department confirmed reports that Hitler was planning to murder all the Jews in territories under German control, several American Jewish leaders including Rabbi Stephen Wise managed to arrange an audience with President Roosevelt. At this meeting, the only one FDR had with Jewish leaders about the Holocaust, the President was presented with a document outlining the Nazi plan to annihilate European Jews. As this report of the meeting indicates, the president was acquainted with details of the atrocities being committed by the Nazis. Memorandum of Conversation by Mr. Harry L. Hopkins, Special Assistant to President Roosevelt regarding a meeting with Anthony Eden March 27, 1943 Four months after the State Department confirmed the dimensions of the Holocaust, British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden met in Washington with President Roosevelt, Secretary of State Cordell Hull and Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles. At this meeting, Eden expressed his fear that Hitler might actually accept an offer from the Allies to move Jews out of areas under German control. No one present objected to Eden's statement. ... 6. Bombing Railways And Auschwitz Summary of the Auschwitz escapees report by Gerhart Riegner, World Jewish Congress, Geneva, sent under cover of R.E. Shoenfeld, U.S. charg\ufffd to Czech government in London, to Cordell Hull, Secretary of State, July 5, 1944 On April 7, 1944, two Slovakian Jews escaped from Auschwitz. By the end of the month they had reached the Jewish underground in Slovakia, where they gave a detailed account of the mass murder operations at the camp. The two men also warned that preparations were underway to murder the Jews of Hungary. Their report initiated a series of requests that the U.S. bomb the crematoria at Auschwitz and key rail links that would be used to transport Hungarian Jews to Poland. Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury to Assistant Secretary of War, Jan 28, 1944, asking that Theater Commanders be advised to cooperate with WRB rescue operations Shortly after the establishment of the War Refugee Board, Henry Morgenthau, Jr. Secretary of the Treasury asked the War Department to advise theater commanders that they would be expected to cooperate with the Board in aiding "Axis victims to the fullest extent possible." No message to this effect was ever sent to military commanders. Thomas T. Handy, Assistant Chief of Staff, Memorandum for the Chief of Staff, February 8, 1944, on reassuring the British that military forces will not be used to rescue refugees Cable from Switzerland to Agudas Israel World Organizations, New York June 12, 1944 describing situation of Hungarian Jews and calling for bombing deportation railways As the Nazis began deporting Jews from Hungary to the Auschwitz death camp in Poland, requests to bomb the deportation railways were sent to the United States. Jacob Rosenheim, Agudas Israel World Organization, New York, to Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury, June 18, 1944, asking that deportation rail lines be bombed Thomas Handy, Assistant Chief of Staff, War Department, to Director, Civil Affairs Division, June 26, 1944, conveying the Operations Division's conclusion that bombing the deportation railways is "impracticable" In line with its undeclared policy not to aid in the rescue of refugees, the War Department routinely turned down requests to bomb deportation railways. No studies were ever conducted to check the feasibility of such bombing raids. Draw you own conclusions. Edited by bluke Aug. 3, 2006, 10:34:33 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #263,595 by bepatient 8/3/06 10:55:05 AM Reply	Why, the authors already did. And say we HAD bombed Auschwitz...while full of innocent Jewish prisoners. What revisionist history would you be applying to >that<. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,597 by bluke 8/3/06 10:57:12 AM Reply	None and you know it
Post #263,602 by bepatient 8/3/06 11:12:49 AM Reply	somehow I doubt that Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,681 by Ashton 8/3/06 7:50:54 PM Reply	Just lookin fer loopholes, are we? Like clockwork - It would require Ballmer-class obfuscation to scurry around to assemble 'reasons' for the failure even to tear up a few RR tracks: the symbolic value alone, as with the Mitchell raid on Tokyo.. would have justified such a low-risk couple bombers or even fighter-bombers, with a few spares after another raid. There were So Many of those raids. If.. anyone actually Cared, even a mere tad. For all the Good Shows! earned in WW-II, this peculiar.. could be called -intentional- omission, in the face of much more evidence than, say, a unilateral Regime Change\ufffd invasion 'needed' 60 years later? - can be defended only by a jingoist. (The "trade of 10K trucks for Jews", now.?. that cynical offer was fraught with obvious problems on a variety of scales. Ripe for review, perhaps - but not nearly so stark an act of omission as was the above.)
Post #263,598 by bluke 8/3/06 11:04:13 AM Reply	It's no secret that America in the 1940's ... was on the whole a racist and anti-semitic place. This colored the decisions of the leadewrship as well.
Post #263,603 by bepatient 8/3/06 11:14:17 AM Reply	So you go from saying no such thing...to openly stating it. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,604 by bluke 8/3/06 11:20:10 AM Reply	Do you deny that America was a racist anti-semitic ... place then? Everything needs to be taken in context. Rossevelt and the US government would never have actually gone about killing Jews, they just didn't like them and didn't feel a great need to try to save them. Given the atmosphere of the day it doesn't surprise me. You are judging them by today's standards I am not.
Post #263,607 by boxley 8/3/06 11:24:23 AM Reply	whatchu mean then? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #263,610 by bluke 8/3/06 11:26:52 AM Reply	That given the overall atmosphere in the US Roosevelt was no more anti-semitic then the rest of the country.
Post #263,613 by boxley 8/3/06 11:31:58 AM Reply	I assume you have lived in America at some point Here we are free to be bigotted except in the matter of equal access to public discourse. Having said that, although bigots that we are we also played a huge role in the creation and defense of Israel. So when people here are calling for Israel to tone it down, you may heed that call or not. You live in a free society. Be aware though that alliances are not forever. Only Israel is in charge of Israel. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #263,616 by bluke 8/3/06 11:36:08 AM Reply	Born and bred in NYC I lived from birth until the age of 30. I have tremendous appreciation for the US and understand the US role with Israel. It doesn't change the facts about WWII.
Post #263,683 by Ashton 8/3/06 8:03:12 PM Reply	That was my experience then, too - Think it a fair statement that Roosevelt reflected no extreme view - from my experence growing up here, daily hearing the vox populi; it was not necessary even to use the ever-popular weasel euphemisms like 'darkies' for nigras/niggers; there was a wide assortment of nasty mouth-breather-grade 'nicks for Jews. I Heard Them All. I concur - FDR was Everyman, in that regard. (And, as our 'Conservatives' are today the 'Reactionaries' of that period when language had not been G\ufffdbbelsized to the extremes of '06: many are Still living 1940s slogans, from right here in Yuppie wine country --> to the wastelands of the Rust Belt.) Pity. Maybe the transistorized-kids can skip a couple generations - having grown up with, become inured to? the lies on kiddie-ad-pushing Tee Vee for New Consumers. Maybe.
Post #263,682 by rcareaga 8/3/06 7:59:16 PM Reply	A proclamation Your attention please. The bestial behavior of a generation of Germans now almost entirely dead does not constitute a free pass for Israel to conduct itself however it pleases in perpetuity, or even unto the present day. Kindly adjust your policies, or at least your rhetoric, accordingly. "Israel was paid for with the blood of six million Jews!" "Maybe that's not what the Arabs wanted for it." —Frederic Raphael, The Glittering Prizes, 1976 cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.

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