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New Your example does not refute the assertion
Some public goods can be privately provisioned. Some cannot.

Incidentally I am wondering how long Georgia has had smoking and nonsmoking bars. Because [link|http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/0505/05smokingsigned.html|the non-smoking bars may not have a choice]. By law, if you have a bar at a restaurant that allows minors, you can't have smoking. You either have to give up the restaurant or give up smoking. Which is a very different economic proposition than deciding to go non-smoking because you hope to attract non-smokers.

BTW I note that this ban had strong public support. I also note that the article I linked to shows another incentive against a restaurant implementing a non-smoking policy on its own - which is the unpleasantness of having to confront smokers about their violating the policy. If there is a ban you can just say, "Sorry, it's the law." And you'll get far less argument than if you say, "Sorry, it's management policy." (Public confrontations with customers are, of course, generally bad for business...)

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Never said that minors should be exposed.
And there was a 'stink' about it (sorry, couldn't resist) when it went into effect. One of the most vocal opponents I personally talked to was a waitress who didn't smoke at a restaurant that served minors.

It's a reasonable law, that respects smokers, non-smokers, and those without a choice. Just like I'm sure there would be a 'stink' if my suggestion of higher cost licensing for smoking clubs went into place.

It's the flat-out bans that get my goat, so to speak.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New It sounds like a reasonable compromise to me as well
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     Peter's pub experiences will change - (ben_tilly) - (150)
         Works for me - (pwhysall) - (6)
             Toronto has had it for a couple of years - (lister) - (5)
                 Come to Kingston - (jake123) - (4)
                     Been there, far drive - (lister) - (3)
                         Well, let me know the next time you're coming through - (jake123) - (2)
                             Doing both in June - (lister) - (1)
                                 That'll probably be in Kingston - (jake123)
         Hurrah! Anything to reduce the evil weed. -NT - (warmachine)
         Next sins, in order: alcohol, seduction, evangelizing . . . -NT - (Ashton) - (140)
             Hey, I'm fine with people SMOKING tobacco... - (inthane-chan) - (139)
                 Supply & Demand. - (imric) - (137)
                     That doesn't work. - (admin) - (113)
                         Same damned thing. - (imric) - (112)
                             Two things are working against that. - (admin) - (62)
                                 For the record, yes - (drewk) - (50)
                                     Re: For the record, yes - (admin) - (49)
                                         Nanny state - (drewk) - (47)
                                             Basic public health and safety isn't nannying. - (admin) - (38)
                                                 I'm reminded of an old saying - (drewk) - (37)
                                                     Actually in Helena... - (admin) - (31)
                                                         60% of all heart attacks are due to 2nd hand smoke? - (boxley)
                                                         Wait, I missed something - (drewk) - (18)
                                                             Dunno, why don't they? - (admin) - (17)
                                                                 So they *do* exist - (drewk) - (16)
                                                                     Re: So they *do* exist - (admin) - (15)
                                                                         Why not? - (drewk) - (14)
                                                                             Many times it easier to breathe - (jbrabeck) - (12)
                                                                                 So *you* would rather breathe smoke than hear whining - (drewk) - (11)
                                                                                     Hell no - (jbrabeck) - (10)
                                                                                         And you'd create a drug war to make our existing one... - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                                                                                             I didn't say make it illegal.... - (jbrabeck) - (8)
                                                                                                 It's already cheaper to smuggle... - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                                                                                                     now? I can mail order 4 cartons a month from Israel -NT - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                                                         Now. - (jake123) - (5)
                                                                                                             Canada's taxes are higher than US taxes - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                                                                                 do people around you go to Indian Smokeshops? - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                                     Not that I know of. -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                                 Not true when it comes to smokes - (jake123) - (1)
                                                                                                                     Good to know. My impression was out of date. -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                                                             The restaurant was always busy before the ban. - (admin)
                                                         funny I dont even see a listing for that here - (boxley) - (9)
                                                             ... - (admin) - (8)
                                                                 doesnt mention second hand anything - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                     Oh, right, because smoke magically only affects the smoker. - (admin) - (6)
                                                                         That's new to me - (drewk) - (5)
                                                                             Re: That's new to me - (admin) - (4)
                                                                                 Not at all the same - (drewk) - (3)
                                                                                     Uh, no. - (admin) - (2)
                                                                                         I'm the sophist? - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                             Re: I'm the sophist? - (admin)
                                                         Ah.. It's-Good-for-You -- is Enough: OK, suppose we PROVED - (Ashton)
                                                     I don't get cancer if you eat a Big Mac - (lister) - (4)
                                                         Right back at you. - (imric)
                                                         You do pay for his decrease in health - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                             <smack location=back_of_head /> -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                 Hey - (bepatient)
                                             On fire codes and such... - (Another Scott) - (7)
                                                 Insurance - (drewk) - (6)
                                                     Comes under the category of "reasonable" - (admin) - (4)
                                                         You just jumped the shark - (drewk) - (3)
                                                             WTF? - (admin) - (2)
                                                                 Do you support random roadblocks? - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                     No. - (admin)
                                                     That's too simplistic. - (Another Scott)
                                         Beat me to it...Drook, what he said! -NT - (jb4)
                                 I was poor, true. Desparate times DO require desparate - (imric) - (10)
                                     Finally, a reasonable counter-suggestion - (admin) - (9)
                                         How about peanuts? - (drewk) - (8)
                                             Thats why you get pretzels on planes now. -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                 I thought it was because the pretzels are cheaper. -NT - (Simon_Jester)
                                             Already have "stink" restrictions in many places. - (jbrabeck)
                                             They don't allow peanuts in the schools here. - (admin) - (4)
                                                 Not playing games, making a point - (drewk) - (3)
                                                     Re: Not playing games, making a point - (admin) - (2)
                                                         Those offended by the cartoons would say that's what matters - (drewk) - (1)
                                                             Shrug. It's all in your viewpoint. - (admin)
                             Capitalism is imperfect - (ben_tilly) - (48)
                                 Capitalism and libertarianism are orthogonal - (drewk) - (47)
                                     I wasn't saying what was right - (ben_tilly) - (46)
                                         Not my point - (drewk) - (1)
                                             And completely orthogonal to mine - (ben_tilly)
                                         I am a moderate as a Libertarian - (imric) - (43)
                                             I'm not arguing for or against this change - (ben_tilly) - (42)
                                                 "That can be a losing economic idea" - (imric) - (39)
                                                     All society is groups forcing their choices on others - (pwhysall) - (33)
                                                         :-) ObMythbusters aside. - (Another Scott)
                                                         Thats why yer missus will be wearing a burka in 20 years -NT - (boxley)
                                                         Not the same - (drewk) - (21)
                                                             Re: Not the same - (pwhysall) - (20)
                                                                 So go find a place that doesn't allow smoking. - (imric) - (16)
                                                                     Overly simplistic answer - (jbrabeck) - (15)
                                                                         If it doesn't go both ways, the 'reasoning' is faulty. - (imric) - (14)
                                                                             I don't know why Georgia is different than NYC. - (ben_tilly) - (13)
                                                                                 Me neither. - (imric) - (12)
                                                                                     I have a strong suspicion that I know the answer - (ben_tilly) - (11)
                                                                                         *shrug* They choose their customer base. - (imric) - (10)
                                                                                             Do you have any idea how ironic this is? - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                                                                                                 Not at all - well, sort of. - (imric) - (8)
                                                                                                     The network effect WAS there. - (admin) - (5)
                                                                                                         So - - (imric) - (4)
                                                                                                             Refuse to see it all you want. - (admin) - (3)
                                                                                                                 Of course that's the ONLY explanation, right? - (imric) - (2)
                                                                                                                     Conservatism and risk are part of it. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                         *shrug* -NT - (imric)
                                                                                                     I'm not interested in arguing this to the ground - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                                                         *smile* Sounds good. Me too. -NT - (imric)
                                                                 Try again - (drewk) - (2)
                                                                     Yes, but it SHOULD be legal! - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                         One thing at a time - (drewk)
                                                         Still avoiding it, huh. - (imric) - (8)
                                                             You have a place. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                 Cr@p. - (imric)
                                                             I'll play, briefly. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                                 And of course no employees smoke - (imric) - (4)
                                                                     Heath and safety rules are inconvenient. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                         You don't mind if smokers do it in their own homes - (imric) - (2)
                                                                             Smoking is an interesting case re: the health issues - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                 Men of straw. - (imric)
                                                     Your ifs are wrong. - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                         Your facts are wrong - (imric) - (3)
                                                             Your example does not refute the assertion - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                 Never said that minors should be exposed. - (imric) - (1)
                                                                     It sounds like a reasonable compromise to me as well -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                                 <reagan>There you go again</reagan> - (drewk) - (1)
                                                     It is not just Libertarians who say that - (ben_tilly)
                     It is about health - (lister) - (22)
                         what kind of point is that? - (boxley) - (1)
                             It was an example - (lister)
                         No, its not. - (bepatient) - (6)
                             I don't disagree on truly private clubs. - (admin) - (4)
                                 Works for after-hours clubs - (drewk) - (1)
                                     It's a loophole if... - (admin)
                                 That loophole can be closed - (bepatient) - (1)
                                     I don't disagree with any of that. - (admin)
                             Please elaborate. - (Another Scott)
                         Idiotic. I'd leave. I wouldn't pass a law against BO. - (imric) - (12)
                             You missed the point. - (admin) - (11)
                                 If that were true - (imric) - (10)
                                     You're absolutely right, I don't HAVE to go to a bar. - (admin) - (9)
                                         Did you people get any work done today? -NT - (broomberg) - (4)
                                             Nope -NT - (drewk)
                                             I type quickly. -NT - (admin) - (1)
                                                 Interesting way to avoid answering the question... -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                             Yup -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                         why cant you drink draft beer and play pool in yer home? - (boxley) - (3)
                                             Don't have a keg fridge - (admin) - (2)
                                                 internet, check basement check duct tape check don t need a - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     I don't drink that much beer. :-) -NT - (admin)
                 Yes, but I think Seattle went a little far - (tuberculosis)
         It may change soon in Virginia too. - (Another Scott)

I don't need to do a bunch of coke to be happy.
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