Quick question for you

Have you ever used OS/2? Do you know anything about it's usability features? From your post, it's clear that the answer is no, and no.

In short, you are a big fan of arguing from ignorance.

Having used Warp, Windows, Linux and Mac in order of degree of use over the last ten years, I think I can say I'm not arguing from ignorance. Warp was a bitch to install, but after that was far and away the best system for actual use, and arguably still is, or would be if there was more software for it. Warp was done in by a few things, not least of which was the OEM's desire for a sole supplier so that they could hand over the keys to someone else.

Why don't you go buy a copy of eComStation from Mensys? Tell Roderick I sent ya. It'll cost you a few hundred bucks, but after that it'll be very cheap over the long haul; the state of unix ports on OS/2 is far advanced to the same situation on Windows, and interestingly enough it's all maintained by a tiny fraction of the development community. You've got your web suite (moz, firefox, thunderbird), OpenOffice (new version coming out very soon), various dev tools, and of course REXX. You also get what is arguably the best and easiest to learn UI ever created for computers. It's not an attempt to be "intuitive", instead it's an attempt to be "consistent" everywhere, so that once you learn how the basic thing works, you are off to the races for anything you try to do.

The right click pop up menu came from OS/2. 'nuff said.... and I won't be saying anything more on the matter. However, I will say that you should really think twice before offering a conclusion on something upon which you have just readily admitted you know nothing.

--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post #236,264 by ben_tilly 11/28/05 2:25:18 AM Reply	Quick question for you Do you believe that OS 2 lost because it was worse (ie less useable) than the competition (Windows)? If so, then you're going to have another argument on your hand shortly... Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,267 by ubernostrum 11/28/05 2:49:45 AM Reply	I do not believe that any one factor ever is the sole cause of an interface's success or failure; the real world is never that simple. \r\n\r\n But if the level of configurability in OS/2 Warp truly had a significant impact on usability, then one would expect something more to have come out of it, even if only in a legacy of ideas living on in other systems. As it is, the ideas which are being extolled here are not the ideas from OS/2 Warp which actually did live on. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird? \r\n[link\|http://www.shtuff.us/\|shtuff]
Post #236,287 by drewk 11/28/05 9:39:39 AM Reply	Before anyone else responds to this ... *Please* branch it. You are now starting the "other argument" Ben mentioned. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,299 by jake123 11/28/05 11:55:17 AM Reply	Too Late, Drook. Have you ever used OS/2? Do you know anything about it's usability features? From your post, it's clear that the answer is no, and no. In short, you are a big fan of arguing from ignorance. Having used Warp, Windows, Linux and Mac in order of degree of use over the last ten years, I think I can say I'm not arguing from ignorance. Warp was a bitch to install, but after that was far and away the best system for actual use, and arguably still is, or would be if there was more software for it. Warp was done in by a few things, not least of which was the OEM's desire for a sole supplier so that they could hand over the keys to someone else. Why don't you go buy a copy of eComStation from Mensys? Tell Roderick I sent ya. It'll cost you a few hundred bucks, but after that it'll be very cheap over the long haul; the state of unix ports on OS/2 is far advanced to the same situation on Windows, and interestingly enough it's all maintained by a tiny fraction of the development community. You've got your web suite (moz, firefox, thunderbird), OpenOffice (new version coming out very soon), various dev tools, and of course REXX. You also get what is arguably the best and easiest to learn UI ever created for computers. It's not an attempt to be "intuitive", instead it's an attempt to be "consistent" everywhere, so that once you learn how the basic thing works, you are off to the races for anything you try to do. The right click pop up menu came from OS/2. 'nuff said.... and I won't be saying anything more on the matter. However, I will say that you should really think twice before offering a conclusion on something upon which you have just readily admitted you know nothing. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #236,301 by pwhysall 11/28/05 12:05:49 PM Reply	Ya gotta admit, it /is/ arse-ugly, though. /me flees after chucking the hand-grenade. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,303 by jbrabeck 11/28/05 12:14:50 PM Reply	Ya looking in the mirror again? ;-) A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #236,304 by pwhysall 11/28/05 12:25:00 PM Reply	I see many things in the mirror. OS/2 isn't one of them. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,305 by drewk 11/28/05 12:32:55 PM Reply	And I'm the one that gets accused of fishing for LRPDs === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #236,337 by ben_tilly 11/28/05 5:02:56 PM Reply	That's because it isn't behind you I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #236,313 by jake123 11/28/05 1:39:46 PM Reply	Ya gotta look at a version that's was released in this century sometime, Peter. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #236,317 by pwhysall 11/28/05 1:59:43 PM Reply	Re: Ya gotta look at a version that's was released in this I [link\|http://www.ecomstation.com/gallery/index.php?g=eComStation_1.2/user_submitted_screenshots\|did]. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,321 by folkert 11/28/05 2:41:24 PM Reply	Wow. 4 out of the 6 are very nice looking. Those 4 look everybit as nice as KDE or GNOME does. One even surpasses them in subtle touches. Really, truly, there is no difference in the "look" of the Linux Desktop and the OS/2 eComStation. I am thinking there is an "OMG-Lookey-What-I-Can-Do" amount of options in configs... the last time I really used OS/2 was ONLY in commandline mode for controlling a tape-robot, a couple of tape storage Cabinets, and a gaggle of Tape Drives. I rather liked being able to just use it. The other two that were setup in "gaudy" mode, sure we can get there in Linux. Just try "twm" on for size. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #236,328 by pwhysall 11/28/05 4:02:11 PM Reply	I take it your wife chooses the decor in your house. You'd go blind, otherwise... Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #236,347 by n3jja 11/28/05 6:16:32 PM Reply	Jack, it' like trying to teach a pig to sing.
Post #236,355 by boxley 11/28/05 8:11:48 PM Reply	you've heard him, he cant sing :-) "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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