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New The case against Turkey Day
When I was a kid, growing up in the less classy suburbs of Boston, my school decided to take us all on a field trip. We all got in the buses and headed down the highway toward the Cape. But we never got there. Instead we stopped at a tacky little tourist trap called Plymouth.

You might have heard of Plymouth, Massachusetts. It's the town where it's Thanksgiving all year round.

They bused us all there to look at Plymouth Rock. Have you ever seen Plymouth Rock? Well, I have. What's it like? Well, basically, it's a rock. It's a lump of granite shaped like a sack of potatoes ("buhdaydiz" in the local dialect) and roughly the size of a Volkswagen. It looks a lot like all the other rocks there on the beach, but this one is partly dug out of the sand so you can see it better, and it's got a sort of Greek pagoda thing built around it so you know which one it is. And just in case you miss the point, somebody chiseled the date 1620 on the thing.

This is the spot where the Pilgrims first landed in the New World. At least, they think so. No one can say for sure they got the right rock. The rocks all kind of look the same, and at the time, nobody bothered to take note of the particular rock. Actually, it's just a guess.

What else was there in Plymouth, Massachusetts? Well, there was a town hall, a church or two, a grocery store, a whole lot of sand and rocks without numbers on them, and a dinky museum with a Thanksgiving theme. This Plimoth Plantation thing hadn't been built yet, so I don't really know what I've missed there. But from what I gather, it's a just a bigger and better tourist trap.

There's an awful lot of hype about Turkey Day. TV specials, school plays, cutouts of turkeys, caramel corn, etc. Why, it's even a national holiday! All this hype makes the story about the Pilgrims and the Mayflower and Niles Truncheon or whatever his name was seem like a big deal. When I went to the execrable public schools of Massachusetts (I'm self educated, but that doesn't mean I didn't go to school) they said this was the start of America and freedom and all that. Nonsense. It was barely even the start of Thanksgiving. Nobody made a big deal about Turkey Day until many years after the event. More to the point, that landing in 1620 wasn't the start of anything.

I got out of the bus and looked around, and asked myself - if this was where it all started, why it still such a dreary little village in the middle of nowhere? The big attraction around here is Edaville Railroad, not this stupid rock. (Edaville Railroad is great, by the way. If you ever find yourself in the Plymouth area, go check it out. Your kids will love it. And skip the rock with the number on it.)

Well, as it turns out, that's not where anything started. The first settlers in the United States? Virginia, 1607. What about religious freedom? Shhh... we're not supposed to talk about that in the public schools! Aw, screw that. This isn't Social Studies class, this is the real world. Okay, religious freedom. Actually, the Pilgrims had already found religious freedom on Holland. They also found a lot of lowlife there. They didn't come to these shores in search of religious freedom. They came to get away from those damn Dutch.

Well, okay. But wasn't Plymouth the start of English colonization on the northern part of the United States at least? Depends on what you mean by start. It was the first. But it never amounted to anything. A few friendly Indians saved it from utter failure, and helped the colonizing effort rise to the level of mediocrity. It wasn't really the start of anything, because nothing came from it.

Some time later, the Massachusetts Bay colony started English civilization in what is now New England. Boston is the hub of the region. Everything sprang from Boston. Everything good, everything bad - everything. Plymouth eventually got taken over and merged into Massachusetts, almost as an afterthought.

The problem is the harbor. To establish a colony that can grow into a city, you need transportation. On the seacoast, that means you need a decent harbor. Plymouth harbor is a bunch of sand with big rocks in it and a little seawater on top. It's more of an inlet than a harbor. The Mayflower barely managed to get in there. Forget about any bigger boats. You can't even dredge the thing, because there's all these boulders stuck in the sand. Stupid glacial moraine.

There was a much better harbor just a little to the north - what is now Boston Harbor. There was another good one to the south, in Narraganset Bay. If the Pilgrims had bothered to look around a bit more, they couldeasily have found a much better spot. But they were tired and cold and hungry, and they just wanted to get out of that freakin' boat. It could have been worse. The first place they touched down was the tip of Cape Cod, what is now Provincetown. That place looked too godforsaken even for them. P-town is now a colony for gay artists, where they can go do all their gay things without anybody bothering them because who the hell else would want to go there? At least somebody found a use for it.

If it weren't for all the thanksgiving hype, America never would have heard of Plymouth, Massachusetts. Turkey Day put this hick town on the map, and it's a very small dot on the map at that.

So what's Turkey Day all about anyway? Three things: family, food and football. We don't need all that Pilgrim crap to have a Turkey Day. So why the hell put it in this miserable time of year? Of all the times to travel and visit relatives. Only Christmas is worse.

Let's just admit that Turkey Day really has absolutely nothing to do with the Pilgrims and move it to a more seasonable date. And by the way, there's no evidence that the baby Jesus was born in December.



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[link|http://marlowe-essays.blogspot.com/2005/11/case-against-turkey-day.html|Comment at blogger.com]

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4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy!
If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
New nice screed but a few nits
Colonial settlement in the US was much earlier, late 1500's in St Augustine, but not english, hispanic. Several french folks were settled in the US prior to 1609 as well. The Brit's first settlements were in the Virginia and NC. Great notes on why not to visit plymouth, will keep it in mind and blow right by if I ever get back in that area.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Those didn't amount to anything, either.
It's the Anglosphere that made it work. Twice, actually, since I consider the North and South to be two separate sub-civilizations.

Throwing the native American tribalists a bone: whoever it was built those Indian mounds had more of a civilization in what is now the US than did the French or Dutch or anyone else except us English speaking folk. And they were here first. We should give it back... only they were long gone before we showed up.

And while we're at it, let's give Ireland back to the Fir Bolg, Iraq back to the Sumerians, and Palestine back to the Canaanites.

(The building of vast mounds of earth shaped like animals is a noteworthy technological achievement, but does not make a lot of sense from a practical point of view. But then again, we have skyscrapers, which are also kind of stupid when you stop to think the concept through.)
----------------------------------------------------------------
4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy!
If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
New never been to st augustine?
Oldest city in the US, oldest cathederal, not mud huts in a peat bog in Virginia :-)
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Turkey Day was established by an intensive . . .
. . media campaign targeting the Lincoln Administration. Since it was a "God Revival" era (they come and go), the holiday was declared to molify the Neo-Puritans.

It is based entirely on a small note in the colony's records complaining about a beer bash that got out of hand, went on for days and consumed a lot of the winter provisions. Natives smelled the food and came by and were sent out to get some more (probably in exchange for beer).

The Neo-Puritans naturally interpreted it as a religious event in so religious a community and it would have been a prayer meeting to thank God for the harvest.

Everything else about Thanksgiving was made up out of pure imagination because nobody knew anything about the Pilgrims, including their costumes (which were apparently copied from the inside lid of a Dutch Masters cigar box), the blunderbusses they hunted with (a no-aim, no-range weapon of mass destruction to repel boarders trying to take over you ship) and their turkey hunting. All completely imaginary.

Wild turkeys in a natural habitat are almost impossible to bag even with modern equipment. Their evasiveness has been described as "near to genius". The Pilgrims did bring Mexican turkeys over from Europe in 1620 so they could actually have eaten turkey, but nobody knows for sure. Mexican turkeys, introduced to Europe 100 years before, had completely displaced the peacock as festival bird and were by then just normal supplies.

All this and many more tawdry details are available from the Smithsonian Institution. Much of it was published in Smithsonian Magazine just before the Bicentenial - along with the truth about a lot of the other myths that comprise our "American Heritage". This elicited pleading letters to "Please stop - we know it must be true because you have all the evidence, but please stop anyway".

So, Marlowe, I pretty much agree with you for once, and with your Baby Jesus statement also (tax time in the Roman Empire was spring, not winter, just as it is here today, and for very practical reasons).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus Nov. 26, 2005, 02:17:29 PM EST
New I just think of it as a harvest celebration
We don't have another one and fall is a good time to celebrate getting the crops in.

I like T-day. The goal is modest, get the family together for a nice meal. Compared with x-mas its a low stress delight.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:42:23 PM EDT
New Indeed
Thanksgiving is a harvest celebration coopted by patriotism. Makes for a refreshing change from the usual slew of pagan celebrations coopted by Christianity.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
New Not bad; of course: we Do just make it all up as we go along

New And exactly what IS wrong with family, food and football?
Sounds like a real good time to me, an opportunity to forget for a while about Berks, and broken builds, and deadlines that are always irrational and unmeetable.

Sounds like you're looking for yet another opportunity to whine about something, ANYTHING...and since you couldn't find anything else, you started eating your own young.



You need to get laid...


[edit: added last paragraph]
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

Expand Edited by jb4 Nov. 26, 2005, 07:37:45 PM EST
New try reading it without your Marlowe filter, here let me help
translation: the thanksgiving history shoved down our throats by PC educators is a bunch of revisionist crap. Lets move the celebration to a warmer date for the NE US say Aug or April so it can be even more enjoyable watching sports with our family.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New What's any 'point' gotta do with it?
Hey, it's gotta be his er, Thanksgiving gift? to the \ufffdther -
he sounds almost.. non-robotic, when momentarily eschewing some snivelling Trotskyite p\ufffdan -- long enough to acksully suggest something: why, you'd think he might be talkin to real people, 'stead o' them diseased caricatures in that febrile jelloware...

(As with all the poor Alzheimer folk, we must treasure these occasional lapses; remembering that once - he was likely ~rational, too. :-)

New Shades of that liberal state shining through?
Must be that the state that gave us Kennedy's and Kerry's instilled some shade of liberalism in its native sons.
New Have no idea what 'liberal' means, except
that most will kill for a chance to get little Kevin a 'liberal ejaKayshun; (sans ethics courses, so as to snag that corner office, by any means possible.)

As to human psych 101 - that's nondenominational. The dysfunctional are dysfunctional wherever found. Even here.

You'll have to explain what 'liberal' is supposed to mean (??) in er, Any context - I think it's one of the larger Blab-words out there. Right after Freedom, Liberty and Patriotism.

(Why next, yer apt to tell me that the present cabal is ummm 'Conservative'?)


moi


Reactionary - a word which describes a lot of POVs. Wonder why it's so seldom used nowadays? It's even in the dictionary.

New Isn't that what Easter is all about?
Except, um, there aren't any good sports events going on that I can think of.

Go wah!

Peace,
Amy

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
New nuba, stanley cup and spring training
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Well, Easter needs a lot of un-Revisionism too.
Since it's named after a West German fertility goddess named Eastra (Scandinavian: Ostra) who's symbol is the egg, and who is associated with cute bunnies producing a whole lot more cute bunnies (and similar activities), it definitely needs to be put back in the correct context.

Pope Scurrilous III noted the "rebirth" aspect and asigned to it the resurection of the recently crucified Jesus (an event strangely unrecorded in the logs of Pontius Pilot's court) but it really doesn't work all that well, so lets just go back to the original.

That will be a lot more fun.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Can we still keep Mardi Gras? :-)

"It's never too late to be who you might have been." ~ George Eliot
New What would make you think we couldn't?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
     The case against Turkey Day - (marlowe) - (17)
         nice screed but a few nits - (boxley) - (2)
             Those didn't amount to anything, either. - (marlowe) - (1)
                 never been to st augustine? - (boxley)
         Turkey Day was established by an intensive . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
             I just think of it as a harvest celebration - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                 Indeed - (ben_tilly)
         Not bad; of course: we Do just make it all up as we go along -NT - (Ashton)
         And exactly what IS wrong with family, food and football? - (jb4) - (9)
             try reading it without your Marlowe filter, here let me help - (boxley) - (8)
                 What's any 'point' gotta do with it? - (Ashton) - (2)
                     Shades of that liberal state shining through? - (ChrisR) - (1)
                         Have no idea what 'liberal' means, except - (Ashton)
                 Isn't that what Easter is all about? - (imqwerky) - (4)
                     nuba, stanley cup and spring training -NT - (boxley)
                     Well, Easter needs a lot of un-Revisionism too. - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                         Can we still keep Mardi Gras? :-) -NT - (imqwerky) - (1)
                             What would make you think we couldn't? -NT - (Andrew Grygus)

Trouble with a capital "T" and that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!
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