Post #200,973
3/28/05 6:59:06 PM
3/28/05 7:00:41 PM
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I am right.
"It's not more accessible." It is. Further, poing and clicking is easier and more accessable to users. And a wee bit safer. "Yes, they are being forced to" Yeah, so much kcontrol use that I wasn't even aware of an actual kcontrol bug; that's how often I have to use it. Nonsense. "I'm confused by this paragraph. Ubuntu's target audience is normal people." No offense, but when it comes to being 'normal people' using Linux at all, I'm sure I qualify more closely than you do. "really a big pile of excuses for not taking design decisions" Funny, but that is exactly how I see the GNOME decision to cripple fine configuration. "not enough to cause the developers to develop anything like a sense of giving a shit." And this is why Gnome will marginalize itself. The developers don't give a shit, and rationalize by the 'target' hedge. "If you're referring to the Slackware Dropping GNOME story, then I can tell you I spoke to all the Slackware users in the world, and they both say they were using Enlightenment anyway." Heehee. Point taken. "I dub the KDE Control Centre the "KDE Registry". Because it's a tree, right?" An easy to use (in comparison) descriptive menu with help for the entries. "No, they're not; but it's a much harder design process than KDE would have you think." And as I said before, I would accept the argument that configuration comes later, but the hedge, the rationalization, that they don't have to do it anyway because nobody wants it, and they know better anyway, doesn't fly. At all. [link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Edited by imric
March 28, 2005, 07:00:07 PM EST
Edited by imric
March 28, 2005, 07:00:41 PM EST
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Post #200,976
3/28/05 7:18:03 PM
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This reminds me of an old truism
When programmers design something to be used by people less intelligent than themselves, what they come up with tends to suck. Badly.
When they explicitly design it for smart people there is at least a chance of creating something decent.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #200,979
3/28/05 7:43:12 PM
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I have a question.
How is pointing and clicking on items in the about:config list to change values somehow different from pointing and clicking on items in GConf-editor to change values? --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #200,980
3/28/05 7:49:27 PM
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I have a question, too
Are you guys willfully missing this point over and over?
NOTHING existed before in Mozilla but to open the prefs file and edit with a text editor.
Firefox added fine configurabilty, and was still simpler to use and became more popular than it's predecessor.
IOW, the Firefox example is really bad for your argument.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #200,986
3/28/05 8:45:43 PM
3/28/05 8:54:58 PM
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Um.
about:config was part of Mozilla before the project which eventually became Firefox was even in public beta. Notice, for example, that about:config is mentioned in the [link|http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla1.0/#files|Mozilla 1.0 release notes], and that release took place in June 2002. The first experimental Phoenix release wasn't until September of that year.
\r\n\r\n Now. You were saying? --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #200,991
3/28/05 9:00:59 PM
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heheh. OK - never used it until firefox.
I never knew it was there; I always thought fiddling with prefs was a pita.
Doesn't negate my main point, though.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #201,009
3/28/05 11:36:40 PM
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But it does.
Firefox stripped out a lot of options (there's nowhere near as many as in the full suite) and took a lot more which were in the Mozilla preferences dialog and moved them into about:config. GNOME stripped out a lot of options and took a lot more which used to be in preferences dialogs and moved them into GConf. What's the difference? --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #201,028
3/29/05 6:41:53 AM
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What configuration options did they strip out?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #201,033
3/29/05 7:14:13 AM
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Who are you talking about?
If Firefox, just type about:config in Mozilla and about:config in Firefox, and compare. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #201,036
3/29/05 7:32:14 AM
3/29/05 7:33:41 AM
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You.
*sigh* This whole thing is about configuration in Gnome. Not the apps included with Gnome. Not paying attention? You replied with: "Firefox stripped out a lot of options (there's nowhere near as many as in the full suite)" I asked what configuration options they stripped out. Not what features like a mail client, or html editing, or chat. That an application is available not as an integrated suite, but now as separately downloadable components and apps, is nowhere near the point. So tell me - what configuration options (you can ignore about:config, since I didn't know it was there in Mozilla; this should make it easier for you) did Firefox strip out? When you answer that I have some more questions. [link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
Edited by imric
March 29, 2005, 07:33:41 AM EST
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Post #201,514
4/1/05 1:31:38 AM
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I know some of the cookie settings went away.
Because in the full suite and in other Gecko-based browsers like Galeon you can do some nifty cookie stuff that you can't in Firefox. Ditto a lot of the tabbed browsing preferences (hence TBE). And, while I don't have an exhaustive list handy, I suspect a lot of other things went as well. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
\r\n[link|http://www.shtuff.us/|shtuff]
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Post #201,003
3/28/05 10:53:32 PM
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Data point
I work with some reasonably savvy people, and the first we hear of about:config was when news of how to up the number of active http connections made the rounds 6-8 weeks ago.
What we all did know about is the Tools > Options... dialog, which provides simple access to a reasonable subset of configuration options (and looks enough like what people are used to from IE that it doesn't scare newcomers that way about:config does).
Splitting things up in that way--hard stuff obscured, and common stuff within access with a friendly wrapper around it--seems quite sensible.
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Post #201,084
3/29/05 11:49:04 AM
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!
You would have heard about it a looong time ago if you hung around here more...
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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