Post #180,877
10/25/04 1:27:31 PM
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Re: But it's sans-serif and therefore less readable.
Your quote indicates to me that you‘re aware of the difference between readibility and legibility.
The conventional wisdom says that although sans serif fonts are more legible, serif fonts are more readable.
That holds true for print. However, it‘s a truism that sans serif fonts are more readable on the screen.
For print, I‘m very partial to Garamond, Palatino and old style fonts in general. I find modern serif fonts to be somewhat fussy to look at, by and large.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #180,885
10/25/04 1:53:51 PM
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Yeh, but.
Here is a [link|http://projects.edtech.sandi.net/staffdev/tpss99/finepoints/fp3/|link that should suppord your view]. And perhaps to you it does.
But, I have an LCD screen with a natural resolution of 1280 x 1024 and a graphics card that can't go that high and runs at 1024 x 768. I would prefer to read the Times font.
I know, I should get myself a decent graphics card! :)
Alex
In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
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Post #180,887
10/25/04 1:59:24 PM
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Hey, free antialiasing!
Yes, get yourself a card that can drive the LCD at its natural resolution.
You‘ll thank me for it.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
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Post #180,892
10/25/04 2:05:30 PM
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?
How old is this graphics card? The last 1024-only card I remember is the IBM 8514/A.
Does the OS understand what monitor you are using?
-drl
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Post #180,894
10/25/04 2:06:54 PM
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I bet it's down to video memory
I.e. it's only a 2MB card or something; that, or a 4MB card that can only do 1280x1024 at 256 colours or something revolting like that.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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Post #180,896
10/25/04 2:16:08 PM
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Bingo! Old 2 MB card.
Alex
In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly. -- Samuel Taylor Coleridge, poet (1772-1834)
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Post #180,963
10/25/04 9:12:23 PM
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Faulty article.
It compares two fonts with "the same point size". Unfortuantely, they do not have the same x-height, which biases the comparison.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #180,899
10/25/04 2:34:37 PM
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a few of my favorite fonts
Back in the last century I was recruited to write a 150-page tutorial on site creation and design for an ambitious and, it must be said, quite unrealistic in-house project to put most of our local offices on the web. It came to nothing after the guy who was ramrodding the thing was voted off the mothership, but in the course of my labors I did have occasion to speak of type specs, and began that section, in a chatty, irritatingly discursive style, thusly: You'll have noticed that the text displayed on most of the [development prototype] and in the template files themselves uses a "sans serif" font. Without attempting an introductory course in typography, the difference is [Illustration: "serif" and "sans serif" in appropriate respective 36-point fonts]. Serif typefaces, generally used for long printed works, are characterized by the little spurs and doodads, if you'll forgive the technical nomenclature, and sans serif fonts aren't. I had an interest in typefaces from my mid-teens forward, but after acquiring my first PostScript printer in 1987 I began to develop a serious font habit. Over the next several years I accumulated by various means—actual retail chief among them, I am abashed to own—a fairly substantial font library. I was finally compelled to acknowledge that I was powerless over typefaces, and that my life, to say nothing of my Mac OS, had become unmanageable, and I'm happy to report that today, after the 12-step program, the aversion therapy and the drugs (o god, yes—the drugs...) I've got a handle on the problem. Anyway, these days I almost always use Adobe Garamond for personal correspondence and for most work-related typesetting of a narrative nature, such as formatting long reports. I'll occasionally go back to Goudy Oldstyle, one of my first loves, or Berkeley Oldstyle, or Sabon for a bit of variety, although none of these are as flexible as AGaramond. When I need a sens-serif I frequently reach for Gill Sans, although I've long believed that the version I have (purchased on Adobe-branded floppies) is afflicted with faulty kerning. I also like Frutiger, with its range of weights and corresponding condensed sets, and Syntax. Once a year I do a printed event program, heavier on text than I would like, and have got excellent results times past with recourse to the Futura family. cordially, Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?
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Post #180,902
10/25/04 2:43:32 PM
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What scares me is that I believe you are serious
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #180,904
10/25/04 2:45:22 PM
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Someone has too much time on his hands...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #180,907
10/25/04 2:52:12 PM
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hey, punks...
I do typesetting and design for a living! If it weren't for me upper management here would still be doing their Powerpoint presentations with twisty type effects and cartoon ducks brandishing sledgehammers over terminals! Yeah, you guys know who you are! A little respect, please.
harumph.
Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?
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Post #180,914
10/25/04 3:25:10 PM
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Re: hey, punks...
I didn't realize typesetting was your job.
Rather like being a tax advisor, from over here, but that's just an opinion... ;-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #180,915
10/25/04 3:46:52 PM
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not just a job: a way of life
I take the work product of colleagues (these days mainly from higher up the food chain; occasionally from below if there's a slack period) and run it through (A) my own design sense, which, although without the benefit of formal training, is by dint of sedulous study over the years pretty sound if a tad conservative, and (B) my trusy Macintosh (actually, of course, the employer's trusty Macintosh, but I am its sole keeper and companion). When I am finished with it the work product invariably looks incomparably better—not that the bar is terribly high!
Early on my original boss, now retired, was sent by the employer to Japan for a month, and they expected a detailed report upon his return. He came to my office with a typescript and a floppy and said "In my experience the slicker the presentation is, the less closely it's scrutinized." He paused. "I need this to look very, very slick." Of course, in those days (1988? 89?) the few other laser printers in the organization output Courier, period, so a LaserWriter IINT, a copy of PageMaker, a modest font library and I between us were capable, in the primitives' eyes, of some very impressive White Man's juju—hell, the boss and I probably inspired a couple of cargo cults back then...
nostalgically,
Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?
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Post #180,918
10/25/04 3:53:18 PM
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All of that...
... and you couldn't make Dan Rather's expose look better...?
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #180,919
10/25/04 4:02:04 PM
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Additionally:
That's what passes for a war story amongst typesetters, I take it...
I was expecting at the least something along the lines of, "and in retrospect, had we not found the perfect 10 point sans font for the call to arms in those leaflets, the Japanese would have taken San Francisco," or the like...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #180,921
10/25/04 4:05:59 PM
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Now that's just begging ... okay, 'ICLRPD^2' (new thread)
Created as new thread #180920 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=180920|Now that's just begging ... okay, 'ICLRPD^2']
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #180,923
10/25/04 4:16:54 PM
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ICLRPD
In my experience the slicker the presentation is, the less closely it's scrutinized.
I need this to look very, very slick.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #180,924
10/25/04 4:21:12 PM
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Respect?
You've just admitted to being someone whose life revolves around prettifying Powerpoint presentations, and you think I should respect you???
Bwahahahahaha!
Thanks, I needed that.
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #180,926
10/25/04 4:25:53 PM
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Re: Respect?
Hokay, now I call you a Philistine.
Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?
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Post #180,928
10/25/04 4:28:59 PM
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I bet he uses Comic Sans.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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Post #180,938
10/25/04 5:55:27 PM
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I gladly accept the label
At least when it comes to Powerpoint. I loathe Powerpoint. And I loathe the mentality that makes management so fond of it.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #180,939
10/25/04 6:17:44 PM
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Powerpoint and philistinism
I yield to no man in my detestation of both the concept and the execution of Powerpoint. I do not claim artistic or any other kind of merit for the productions that pass through my hands—merely that my intervention serves in some wise to ameliorate the frightful visual ugliness of what the victims of these interminable presentations are compelled to sit through.
cordially,
Cthulhu for President. Why vote for a lesser evil?
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Post #180,982
10/26/04 4:28:10 AM
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Re: Powerpoint and philistinism
What Can one say re Power {ugh} Point? Surely it is the visible stench of the anti-phlogiston to all ideas as might not have met an abortive shunting within the reptile brain of an entrepreneur, or other phage.
I doubt not that thy jeer be sincere as that of.. any demure maiden? as had expected to receive sententious sonnets from a presenting swain -- received instead -- a Hallmark\ufffd'd piece of doggerel, proffered as diversion for a neophyte's furtive and premature grope. (First/Last date, sucker.)
Yet while PP merits any excesses of derision for its Shrub-like dedication to the cockamamie idea that a succession of stupid fucking \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd is an adequate autoreplacement for actual thought: yet is it possible to confound the pewling aims of the Redmond primitives.. ie the idiot-spawn of barbarian Billy possess not the means for completely preventing! the expression of fully-formed ideas, as well.
Thanks to some exposure to an authentic printing operation modeled after pukka Age of Enlightenment equipment and rigor, I have experienced the beauty of elegant fonts, faces and impressions righteously applied to paper to-die-for. Seen.. that, all aspects of size, density, crispness and ink quality combine to add an aura to words (at least, to words of sufficient weightiness as would stand on their own, in holographic space).
(This was a group dedicated to re-presenting Wise words for perusal by students in training to raise their personal 'alchemy' from the standard Murican lead towards tin.. silver? even Gold! - as an individual's perspicuity permitted.)
With fine-arts litho covers, some of these were bloody Gorgeous! (I mean.. an opus here and an opus there, and soon one has created an opera .. in fact rather than mere plural-ness.) Pity we've heavily abraded synergy, but that's the idea.
What minuti\ufffd I had collected about the steps has evanesced from disuse, but I retain some of the samples of what 10/10ths Attention to an octave of work, from concept to full execution -- looks like.
Those who confuse font with The Fonz know not what they miss; let us not awaken them - in event that beauty, overall, proves to be a zero-sum game.
(Gawd but Econ is so soo innately despicable, just like bookkeeping and the tabulators of all Things.)
Printer's 666
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Post #180,990
10/26/04 9:16:38 AM
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It started with the execrable overhead projector
-drl
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Post #180,908
10/25/04 2:54:43 PM
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Nope
He's just into typesetting.
Believe me, I understand completely. In today's world, typesetting is a bit of a lost art (and make no mistake, it IS an art), but it is no less compelling for that.
I'd recommend The Elements of Typographic Style as a good starting place to help you grok it.
For myself, I can think of far worse things to do than to build an old style book press and acquire a really good set of drop forge typefaces (say, Centaur and Arrighi) and start making books.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #180,909
10/25/04 2:57:50 PM
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My $10 book suggestion...
...for people who want to dip a toe into the water with the minimum of expenditure:
The Mac Is Not A Typewriter, by Robin Williams.
She has subsequently written a PC version, so there‘s little excuse for not reading it. In any event, neither volume is particular operating system-dependent.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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Post #180,912
10/25/04 3:10:38 PM
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Yeah it's true
The one I suggested is not a cheap book. OTOH, it is an excellent one.
Here's a link to it on Amazon:
[link|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0881791326/qid=1098731314/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-6882771-9543035?v=glance&s=books&n=507846|http://www.amazon.co...&s=books&n=507846]
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #180,905
10/25/04 2:48:04 PM
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Re: a few of my favorite fonts
I love fonts - but, I'm so picky that only a bare few have any value to me. I'd like to see some better monospaced fonts (for console sessions). All the standard ones are horrible.
-drl
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Post #180,906
10/25/04 2:49:26 PM
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Mmm, Frutiger.
Such authority, without being overbearing! Such assertion, without being intimidating! Such [link|http://www.identifont.com/show?LY|precision]!
Futura (if we‘re thinking of [link|http://www.identifont.com/show?M2|the same thing] is a face that always brings to my mind a certain category of non-fiction printing from late-50s America. That‘s not a bad thing.
And as I‘ve mentioned here before, I regard [link|http://www.identifont.com/show?MB|Gill Sans] as probably the finest sans font of all time.
I‘d say that you and I have typographical tastes that are broadly congruent.
And a small challenge for the crowd at large: please suggest a key caps utility, for GNOME, with similar functionality to the Key Caps utility in OS X. The GNOME Onscreen Keyboard is nearly there, but is very large and clunky when all you want to know is how to produce a prime mark. The GNOME Character Map utility is similarly unsuited for this task.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
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