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New This is just false
Keeping up the military machine is as much a drain on us as it was on them (look around you if you want to see the results). The difference was not a matter of pressure, but temperature - their economy burned out ON ITS OWN. This fiction that "Reagan won the Cold War by outspending the Russians" is astoundingly bad history.

This is another reason why you do not piss away your treasury and energy on large standing armies.
-drl
New Did you respond to the wrong post?
What Bill said above is not simply false. There was a trade deficit when Reagan started in office, not a surplus. I had that wrong. Bill pointed that out. There was no discussion of politics with the USSR there.

I haven't been able to verify his claim that deficits started on Carter's watch though.

Cheers,
Ben
To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act
- [link|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20|Nebraska Supreme Court]
New Oops - had both open - put this under beep "outspent"
-drl
New I gave you the pictures.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New It is a vast simplification.
But it is not as patently false as you want it to be.

You are indeed correct in assuming that the soviet economy was caving in on itself, however the vast amount of resources required to keep pace with us was a HUGE drain on their foreign currency reserves, it created "false" shortages of necessary living products, etc...

THe spending itself would not have killed a functional economy (that quickly...as the jury is still out on what it has done to ours)...but one so hobbled from poor central planning and a desperate lack of liquid currency...well you can see what happened.

However...that level of spending did indeed speed things along quite nicely.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     Gipper gone - (rcareaga) - (103)
         Let us celebrate one of his famous utterances, then: - (Ashton) - (1)
             My favorite, Reagan speaking in Berlin in 1987, is: - (a6l6e6x)
         Re: Gipper gone - (deSitter)
         Unlike the other sentiments expressed - (boxley) - (32)
             An America full of hope and vision? - (deSitter) - (2)
                 Sure...Lots of Hope and Vision - (jb4) - (1)
                     Keep Kerry's wife out of it :) -NT - (boxley)
             Nice sentiments. - (bepatient) - (28)
                 Re: Nice sentiments. - (deSitter) - (26)
                     reagan did neither, it was clinton and bush that did both -NT - (boxley) - (25)
                         He created both trends - (deSitter)
                         Try some arithmetic. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                             But, the Soviet Union came apart at the seams because of him - (a6l6e6x) - (10)
                                 Not true - (deSitter) - (9)
                                     Not that some of what you say about SU wasn't true... - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                         We outspent them. - (bepatient) - (4)
                                             And spent ourselves out of existence as well. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 jury still out.. -NT - (bepatient)
                                             A convenient fiction - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                                 RIght. - (bepatient)
                                     Blah, blah. blah - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                         *applause* - (bepatient)
                                         Sorry bud, you weren't here - (deSitter)
                         How quickly you forget - (ben_tilly) - (11)
                             Nice try. - (bepatient) - (10)
                                 This is just false - (deSitter) - (4)
                                     Did you respond to the wrong post? - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                         Oops - had both open - put this under beep "outspent" -NT - (deSitter)
                                         I gave you the pictures. -NT - (bepatient)
                                     It is a vast simplification. - (bepatient)
                                 I definitely made a mistake - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                     Bounced around zero till the oil crisis - (bepatient)
                                     IIRC, we became a debtor nation in 1982. - (mmoffitt)
                                 Actually, trade deficits started before Carter. - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                     They bounced a bit early.... - (bepatient)
                 Nice to see... - (bepatient)
         Gone but not forgotten - (orion) - (42)
             Re: Gone but not forgotten - (rcareaga) - (41)
                 Take a breath ferchrissakes. - (bepatient) - (6)
                     ignore the californicators - (boxley) - (2)
                         I'll claim them for once - (deSitter) - (1)
                             Not entirely so odd - (ben_tilly)
                     missed memo - (rcareaga) - (2)
                         Love you too, sweetheart. -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                             <smoochies> -NT - (rcareaga)
                 "He expired drooling, incontinent and unsentient." - (mmoffitt) - (33)
                     This is just plain rude and uncivil. - (Arkadiy) - (32)
                         No gray. - (bepatient) - (4)
                             rcareaga. Norm. Uncivil. - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                                 Norm? s/Norm/Mikey -NT - (hnick) - (2)
                                     The RC's reply was to Norm - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                         I'd missed that. Got it. -NT - (hnick)
                         what else would you expect from someone who thinks - (boxley) - (5)
                             Stalin as agrarian reformer? - (rcareaga) - (4)
                                 refering to mikey, not you :0 -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                     Challenge: Find me saying something nice about Stalin. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                         here - (boxley) - (1)
                                             Reading for Comprehension 101. - (mmoffitt)
                         Sorry. I forgot. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                             IIRC... - (Another Scott)
                         Maybe you're OK with having your country destroyed - (deSitter) - (18)
                             *** KUDOS *** -NT - (mmoffitt)
                             Among other things, it's being devoured by the lack of - (Arkadiy) - (16)
                                 Not true - (deSitter) - (1)
                                     A good standing reply to any post, I guess. - (Arkadiy)
                                 Well...since Reagan was a Republican.. - (bepatient) - (13)
                                     The facts speak for themselves - (deSitter) - (9)
                                         So that speaks for Clinton. - (bepatient) - (8)
                                             Worse than Reagan, tied with Bush 1 - (deSitter)
                                             From the UK... - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                                 does margaret wank? - (boxley) - (5)
                                                     We do? - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                         Johnson presided over civil rights - (boxley)
                                                         ICLRPD - (jb4) - (2)
                                                             Blasted checkboxes.....**mumble** -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                 You see? LRPD defends itself; enforces polito-prohibition! -NT - (CRConrad)
                                     Who is underestimating it? - (mmoffitt)
                                     Re: Even current Democrats recognize this. - (a6l6e6x)
                                     Well, we agree on this one thing: - (jb4)
         He's probably with Princess, uh, David.. um, Princess Diane. -NT - (Meerkat)
         Shrub speaks - (rcareaga) - (8)
             Re: "TIE-ran-ee." - (a6l6e6x)
             Somebody needs a hug. - (marlowe) - (6)
                 Image hosted by Angelfire. <- YUO = TEH SUKC. -NT - (pwhysall) - (5)
                     Er, Peter... - (inthane-chan) - (4)
                         You fail. - (pwhysall) - (3)
                             Yup, we don't keep up with lusers. Nor do we care. -NT - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                 Clearly you do :) -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                     No. I just haven't classified you as a luser. Yet. -NT - (ben_tilly)
         I often quote him - (broomberg) - (7)
             well having met you I can understand the lying - (boxley)
             Borrowed from the Russ, of course - (Ashton) - (5)
                 I disagree - (broomberg) - (4)
                     He was an emotional moron - (deSitter) - (3)
                         His first wife, - (Ashton) - (2)
                             Re: His first wife, - (deSitter) - (1)
                                 Checkout my Edit, above _____:-\ufffd - (Ashton)
         Re: Gipper gone - (inthane-chan)
         The Good, they do die young... -NT - (hnick)
         Tis only today I twigged. Ifn u'd said Teflon, Ida known who - (dmarker) - (2)
             Perhaps a bit TOO kindly... - (jb4) - (1)
                 ..perhaps on the new Rationing Stamps? -NT - (Ashton)
         Damning w/ faint praise, are we? -NT - (jb4)

All gravitas is local.
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