Nice try.

Post #158,727 by bepatient 6/7/04 1:15:17 AM Reply	Nice try. Trade Deficit went south of the border under Carter. Its never been back since. The only President to improve the deficit since Carter was Bush Sr. The explosive decompression of the deficit occurred under Clinton. [link\|http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/crisis/2003/tradebalchart.htm\|http://www.globalpol...tradebalchart.htm] If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #158,730 by deSitter 6/7/04 1:27:41 AM Reply	This is just false Keeping up the military machine is as much a drain on us as it was on them (look around you if you want to see the results). The difference was not a matter of pressure, but temperature - their economy burned out ON ITS OWN. This fiction that "Reagan won the Cold War by outspending the Russians" is astoundingly bad history. This is another reason why you do not piss away your treasury and energy on large standing armies. -drl
Post #158,732 by ben_tilly 6/7/04 1:37:14 AM Reply	Did you respond to the wrong post? What Bill said above is not simply false. There was a trade deficit when Reagan started in office, not a surplus. I had that wrong. Bill pointed that out. There was no discussion of politics with the USSR there. I haven't been able to verify his claim that deficits started on Carter's watch though. Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #158,733 by deSitter 6/7/04 1:41:05 AM Reply	Oops - had both open - put this under beep "outspent" -drl
Post #158,734 by bepatient 6/7/04 1:52:52 AM Reply	I gave you the pictures. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #158,735 by bepatient 6/7/04 1:59:33 AM Reply	It is a vast simplification. But it is not as patently false as you want it to be. You are indeed correct in assuming that the soviet economy was caving in on itself, however the vast amount of resources required to keep pace with us was a HUGE drain on their foreign currency reserves, it created "false" shortages of necessary living products, etc... THe spending itself would not have killed a functional economy (that quickly...as the jury is still out on what it has done to ours)...but one so hobbled from poor central planning and a desperate lack of liquid currency...well you can see what happened. However...that level of spending did indeed speed things along quite nicely. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #158,731 by ben_tilly 6/7/04 1:28:34 AM 6/7/04 1:34:54 AM Reply	I definitely made a mistake I was reaching for Lester Thurow's remark, ...the epitaph of the Reagan presidency will be: 'When Ronald Reagan became President, the United States was the largest creditor nation. When he left the presidency, we were the world's largest debtor nation.' Which is true. But we were already on the path from creditor to debtor in 1980. A fact that I got wrong. As for the explosion in the trade deficit under Clinton, you'll note that I did mention that Reagan's excesses have been topped since. That would be an example. Cheers, Ben Update: I've been searching for when we went to having a trade deficit. Apparently it happened in 1971 under Nixon. I don't know if we went back positive during the 70's though, we might well have. To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court] Edited by ben_tilly June 7, 2004, 01:34:54 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #158,736 by bepatient 6/7/04 2:00:53 AM Reply	Bounced around zero till the oil crisis Never been back there since. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #158,875 by mmoffitt 6/7/04 6:17:21 PM Reply	IIRC, we became a debtor nation in 1982. For the first time in decades. Then, Reagan really ratched up spending. First term: From World's largest Creditor to Debtor. Second term: From debtor to World's largest Debtor. That is what the Neocon's call "Economic Revival". bcnu, Mikem If you can read this, you are not the President.
Post #158,883 by Simon_Jester 6/7/04 6:46:31 PM 6/7/04 6:47:39 PM Reply	Actually, trade deficits started before Carter. back in '71...and they've been following the curve ever since. [link\|http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/gands.txt\| source ] Edited by Simon_Jester June 7, 2004, 06:47:39 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #158,888 by bepatient 6/7/04 7:28:14 PM Reply	They bounced a bit early.... ...then headed straight south in the Carter era (not blaming it on him by the way...thats when opec flexed) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

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