Post #149,456
3/31/04 4:16:12 AM
3/31/04 4:23:06 AM
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Owl, be very forgiving, this one knows not what he doth
In the case of CRC hidden under that bullying, foul-mouthed and aggressive facade, is a hell of a nice guy (it just takes enormous patience & effort to find that person).
Also note that these attacks are typically unfettered, are cyclic, and that it is winter in Norway <grin>. That is your best clue as to what you are up against.
Cheers
Doug
Edited by dmarker
March 31, 2004, 04:23:06 AM EST
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Post #149,463
3/31/04 8:45:46 AM
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I know EXACTLY what I'm doing, fuckwit.
It's just that I don't have much patience with stupidity... No more than I do with cowardice and hypocrisy, in fact.
So, you puling little hypocritical coward, when are you going gather up the courage to reply straight TO me?
Like for instance, you've had quite some time -- what is it, six weeks, by now? Or eight, or ten? -- to find examples of that "shitstorm"(*) you promised was going to erupt about that book that showed that the Chinese might have been the first to circumnavigate the globe...
So where is it? (The "shitstorm", I mean; not the book.) Were you right that one would erupt -- or were you, in fact, wrong (and I right), in that no one would give a fuck (because it's as insignificant as all the other Chinese "innovations" that never WENT anywhere in the hands of the Chinese themselves)?
Please respond, for once; I'm genuinely curious as to whether you finally got something right.
What, anyone think I'm a little harsh on poor Douggie? Two counters:
1) Well, isn't he supposed to be a big boy, to traipse in here all by hisself and everything?
and, 2) This behaviour is just the latest instance of the infuriating Markerish smarminess; we have several petered-out threads, going back *years*, where he gibbers and gabbers, then just drops the main conversation when it becomes clear he has no real answer -- and in stead starts sniping at my back in replies to others.
Is it too fucking much to ask that he either, A) come up with an answer and post it in the appropriate thread, or B) acquire a set of balls big enough to at least ADMIT he doesn't fucking have an answer?
Oh, and C) Is it too fucking much to ask that he quit emanating these indirect pieces of poltroonery -- in replies ostensibly "to" others, but invariably *about me* -- like some frigging irate poodle yapping around one's ankles?
Is that really too much to ask, Doug?
(*): Quoting from memory.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #149,464
3/31/04 8:52:56 AM
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"instead" not "in stead". HTH.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #149,468
3/31/04 9:30:10 AM
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oh shit, duck
"You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #149,478
3/31/04 10:48:59 AM
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Fire in the hole!
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Post #149,479
3/31/04 10:49:27 AM
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Wrong simile
goose, not duck.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #149,529
3/31/04 3:09:46 PM
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You really sure on that? I think I've seen both...
...variants; and Idunno if I'm imagining it, but I think the concatenated version usually emanates from across the Atlantic; maybe it's a Murricanism, and Real English writes it the way I do? (Peter?)
If not, then no sweat; I'll try to remember that next time. (Or nexttime, if you will.)
Oh, and Jake, I didn't get the goose thing, either. (Maybe I'm too tired.) So sue me.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #149,531
3/31/04 3:11:42 PM
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Goose, as in poke: "Don't goose the testy Swede"
PS: Yes, I know you're not a native. :-P
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #149,540
3/31/04 3:39:48 PM
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From what I remember
"stead" is an old word for "replacement", or, as [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=stead|dictionary.com] puts it, "the function or position properly or customarily occupied or served by another".
I do not think that this word is still used on its own, although I would not be surprised to see "in his stead" from some politician shooting for "gravitas".
ESL'R'Us :)
--
Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them.
--Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
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Post #149,545
3/31/04 3:54:21 PM
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If it's good enough for Chaucer, it's good enough for me...
On the [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=stead|page you linked to, Ark], search for these words: "...bounds, he a pillar set."
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #149,548
3/31/04 3:57:57 PM
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Geoffrey Chaucer (ca.1343-1400)
Care to reconsider?
--
Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them.
--Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum
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Post #149,551
3/31/04 4:00:55 PM
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Why would he?
It's only the second most important work of literature in the English Language, after Beowulf.
The fact that most people in North America are ignorant of their language's history (and indeed of its beauty in its permutations through time) doesn't mean we all have to toss aside constructions and words because they don't appear in American Pop Culture anymore.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #149,593
3/31/04 6:50:49 PM
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Because it isn't really in our language?
What we know today as English is more properly known as Modern English. This is usually dated as starting from the Great Vowel Shift during the reign of Queen Elizabeth 1. Even so, we don't accept the latitude of spelling that, say, Shakespeare enjoyed.
Chaucer spoke a closely related language (we can mostly read it, but couldn't understand it spoken) called Middle English. You can get a sample at [link|http://www.librarius.com/gy.htm|http://www.librarius.com/gy.htm]. Most people have trouble reading it, and a lot of the words there aren't words in English as well.
Beuwulf is in Old English, or Anglo-Saxon which is incomprehensible to most, see [link|http://www.georgetown.edu/labyrinth/library/oe/texts/a4.1.html|http://www.georgetow...e/texts/a4.1.html] for a sample. As an example of how different even basic grammatical concepts were, English today has no genders. Anglo-Saxon had no less than 5 genders (strong masculine, weak masculine, neuter, weak feminine, strong feminine). Virtually any Latin-based word that we use today was not part of the language. A good number of the words that we kept are now swear-words (eg fuck) or bears a negative connotation (eg cunt vs vagina).
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #149,646
4/1/04 12:26:21 AM
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Weird
I actually have an easier time understanding Chaucer when spoken than I do when reading it.
'Course, I can neither read nor understand Beowulf in its original form.
That said, there are still many things in Chaucer that are found in today's english; while the spelling and pronunciation are different, the words are the same... when you listen to them and apply the middle english "accent".
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #149,647
4/1/04 12:31:16 AM
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You wouldn't understand Chaucer speaking it, though
When it is spoken by a modern speaker, the language is mangled to sound more like it does now. In particular you undo the effects of the great vowel shift.
I've heard reconstructions of what it could have sounded like. I completely couldn't understand them.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #149,651
4/1/04 12:35:15 AM
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I dunno
the guy who was reading it was an English prof here. There was a very large difference in the vowel sounds he was using from modern english... sounded dutch almost. However, after a few lines, it was pretty obvious which went where (to me anyway) and I had no trouble understanding it after that.
'Course, I was also reading it at the same time he was, just not out loud:)
That was back in the mid-eighties, when I was taking English, Ancient Greek, Latin, and Symbolic Logic.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #149,658
4/1/04 5:04:29 AM
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The Knight's Tale, in "Middle English"
[excerpts - as must natch be deGuidoized, me droogies] First, from the [link|http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-old?id=Cha2Can&images=images/modeng&data=/lv1/Archive/mideng-parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1| Knight's Portrait] 43: A knyght ther was, and that a worthy man,
[A K'nik't there waas, and that a ware-e-thy m(o)n]
44: That fro the tyme that he first bigan
45: To riden out, he loved chivalrie,
46: Trouthe and honour, fredom and curteisie.
47: Ful worthy was he in his lordes werre,
48: And therto hadde he riden, no man ferre,
49: As wel in cristendom as in hethenesse,
50: And evere honoured for his worthynesse.
51: At alisaundre he was whan it was wonne.
52: Ful ofte tyme he hadde the bord bigonne
53: Aboven alle nacions in pruce;
54: In lettow hadde he reysed and in ruce,
55: No cristen man so ofte of his degree.
56: In gernade at the seege eek hadde he be
57: Of algezir, and riden in belmarye.
58: At lyeys was he and at satalye,
59: Whan they were wonne; and in the grete see
60: At many a noble armee hadde he be.
61: At mortal batailles hadde he been fiftene,
62: And foughten for oure feith at tramyssene
63: In lystes thries, and ay slayn his foo.
64: This ilke worthy knyght hadde been also
65: Somtyme with the lord of palatye
66: Agayn another hethen in turkye. [link|http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-old?id=Cha2Can&images=images/modeng&data=/lv1/Archive/mideng-parsed&tag=public&part=2&division=div1| The Knight's Tale] 987: He faught, and slough hym manly as a knyght
988: In pleyn bataille, and putte the folk to flyght;
989: And by assaut he wan the citee after,
990: And rente adoun bothe wall and sparre and rafter;
991: And to the ladyes he restored agayn
992: The bones of hir housbondes that were slayn,
993: To doon obsequies, as was tho the gyse.
994: But it were al to longe for to devyse
995: The grete clamour and the waymentynge
996: That the ladyes made at the brennynge
997: Of the bodies, and the grete honour
998: That theseus, the noble conquerour,
999: Dooth to the ladyes, whan they from hym wente;
1000: But shortly for to telle is myn entente.
1001: Whan that this worthy duc, this theseus,
1002: Hath creon slayn, and wonne thebes thus,
1003: Stille in that feeld he took al nyght his reste,
1004: And dide with al the contree as hym leste.
1005: To ransake in the taas of bodyes dede, I still remember the (as taught) pronunciations of many of the words, now grateful for having been 'forced' to memorize some passages. It was/is fun to speak and - I challenge the assertion that it's incomprehensible. With an hour or two drill/practice, actually paying Attention - it indeed rolls trippingly off the tongue, and from even this vast chasm across events. And maybe especially - amidst today's Great Silliness. Surely the engrams activated by this minor exercise, gave first clues about Language itself.. sneaky, that Teacher. Doing/Saying 'Chaucer' connected lots of fragments and hints about how our brains (this one anyway) grab something expressible out of the infinite soup accumulated thus (that) far. You Can at least begin to 'feel' why it is, that C. survived.. all the way to the Great Regression of the post-literate Era-of-Distracting-Toys. (I deem that, if "all work and no play" makes Jack a dull boy; all play and no work: begets a nation of inarticulate Dubyas, Rushes and Murican Idols ---> Our Futchah.) [Though countering this assertion -at least superficially- I see: My Gramma! knew some Chaucer - and she was a Dubya/Rush surrogate.] What's that about All Generalizations Being False? Merely memorizing Chaucer is hardly appreciating the cat, or why he survived even in superficial Murica, at least up to ~ 50 years ago. Yes, one needs a glossary for such 'wer-des' as brennynge, waymentynge and the like. But the fluidity of metre -as spoken- and the sense of each phrase: Comes Through. 'Course such lore is irrelevant to getting your drivers license, MBA and that job at WallBurger. Evidently even the name 'Chaucer' shall become as unfamiliar as Agamemnon or Hypatia - if not already so. But WTF - can Chaucer in NewSpeak be far behind? Props fer the swingin Nonne, that habit habitu\ufffd with bling-blings... (from the Prurient Priory of Pecksniffery, LLC) ch-aa ch-aa ch-aaa
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Post #149,663
4/1/04 6:06:12 AM
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Of course we can read Middle English, Ash.
We can read YOUR posts, can't we?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #149,708
4/1/04 2:16:10 PM
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No dice.. that's Advanced.
Ya insufferable twit -
Defenders of the Subordinate Clause LLC
Subversively undoing damaged attention spans everywhere, wrought by Digi-speak TLAs and MAN-pages
extralinguistic yammerers - outside the province of linguistics
:-\ufffd
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Post #149,546
3/31/04 3:57:31 PM
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No, stead is still a word
The fact that you don't hear it "on the street" doesn't mean it's not a word.
One particular form of it has become a separate word (ie- instead) simply because it's the most common place of use in a sentence, but it can be used in other ways. The example you cite is a perfectly acceptable use of the word. You only use instead when there is absolutely no possible ambiguity about the object in question.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #149,634
3/31/04 11:38:15 PM
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"In stead" .eq. "instead"
Speakers of English For Simpletons may not have happened across this.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #149,672
4/1/04 8:52:23 AM
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Or those not accustomed to using obsolete forms in
modern speech.
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #149,683
4/1/04 9:48:26 AM
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Not necessarily obsolete in Actual English.
What you merkins choose to do is up to you :-)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #149,709
4/1/04 2:18:25 PM
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er__________{cackle}___Home Sweet Home Stead
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Post #150,079
4/5/04 12:02:30 PM
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Because.
We're in charge of everything. Haven't you been paying attention? I thought you, especially, would know that since your PM is our lap dog. :-D
bcnu,
Mikem
The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.
- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
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Post #149,539
3/31/04 3:34:32 PM
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A definition...
[link|http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/poltroonery|http://www.hyperdict...onary/poltroonery]... The only reason I know "pusillanimity" is due to a Rutle's song...
Good show otherwise, mate... Carry on.
Just a few thoughts,
Danno
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Post #149,543
3/31/04 3:49:22 PM
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Here ya go:
Try the [link|http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=poltroon|stem of the word] in stead.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #149,541
3/31/04 3:43:45 PM
3/31/04 3:45:34 PM
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A challenge
Lets see you show as much wit and sarcasm as you do foul-mouthedness and aggression.
The former takes intellect and quick thinking, the latter is the characteristic of the schoolyard thug. So *don't* hide your aggressive foul-mouthedness behind the claim that you are dressing down people's stupidity.
Doug M
I am surprised you don't steal Owl's & DeSitter's % etc:'s lunch money.
Edited by dmarker
March 31, 2004, 03:45:34 PM EST
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Post #149,553
3/31/04 4:05:56 PM
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Let's see YOU show ANYTHING, first.
It's not your place to issue any "challenges", wankwad; you've blown off too many of them yourself over the years.
Frankly, I'm just too tired of your weaselling ways to consider you worth wasting any "wit and sarcasm" on. Where on Earth do you get the impression that you somehow *deserve* any better than "foul-mouthedness and aggression"?
Reply to at least one of the many threads you've ignomiously slunk away from before, and then, MAYBE, you'll have earned back a bit of a right to be taken seriously.
Until then, you're just stalling (funny, wouldn't have thought *that* is what a fly-boy wants to do...) -- and if you'd paid any attention to the post you replied to, you'd have noticed that that was precisely what *I* was calling YOU out on.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #149,556
3/31/04 4:14:20 PM
3/31/04 4:17:39 PM
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Stopped your foul mouth for once
That has to be an achievement :-)
Now big boy, the reason I don't & won't respond to your posts in the forums is because you have *always* posted with either your foul mouth or with obvious flame-bait & thus it is plainly clear you aren't interested in any serious discussion, just another characteristic chance to start another flame thread with even more of your universally famous foul-mouthed diatribes.
The day you respond to me with a serious post that isn't clearly flame-bait, I will treat it as such and treat you the same.
As for your tiredness, doesn't it ever occur to you how tired others are of your thuggery.
Doug M
Edited by dmarker
March 31, 2004, 04:17:39 PM EST
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Post #149,652
4/1/04 1:04:03 AM
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Stalling, stalling, stalling...
...raw-HIDE!
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #149,659
4/1/04 5:34:58 AM
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WTF is this [anti-] Chinese fetish?
IIRC (as much as I care to R == not enough to search for the passage, obv.) the article Doug posted, suggested that the C. had discovered a few places and, unlike the marauding Occidentals - decided it wasn't worth pursuing the matter. Or.. maybe the factoids got lost within some internecine warfare du jour.
You IIRC - deemed that, if they didn't call in the Developers / Conslutants / Entrepren{ugh}eurs in full cavalry attire to oust the new-found natives, pillage, appropriate and Own Them:
~"It Wasn't Really a Fucking Discovery"
Or something Like that. Then ya called him a Commie-lover or some such, for believing that the story just might harbour a smidgeon of Truth.
Dunno but.. perspicuous gargantuan grouchery notwithstanding -
Pshaw comes to mind.
Maybe it's Chernobyl fallout.. didn't just zap the reindeer?
If your attack is going too well, you're walking into an ambush.
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill
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Post #149,606
3/31/04 10:23:53 PM
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I'm always very forgiving, as a rule.
No problem, I haven't even been around the last couple days to be flamed. ;)
Nightowl >8#
"Don't be a cynic and disconsolate preacher. Don't bewail and moan. Omit the negative propositions. Challenge us with incessant affirmatives. Don't waste yourself in rejection, or bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good." Ralph Waldo Emerson
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