Post #128,785
12/4/03 1:53:19 AM
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Running AdAware can cause TCP/IP to stop working
I haven't seen it for awhile, so maybe they fixed something, but some scumware changed TCP/IP programs and AdAware removed something that caused TCP/IP to not work. Just reinstalling Windows over the current install did not fix the problem.
I had to set up a procedure and scripts to remove and reinstall TCP/IP to get around this. It isn't at all simple because Microsoft doesn't have a remove/reinstall for TCP/IP and without the scripts I wrote it's incredibly tedious. Dell would have a heck of a time walking someone through it over the phone, probably at least 2 hours.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #128,823
12/4/03 9:17:08 AM
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Re: Running AdAware can cause TCP/IP to stop working
I've used Ad-Aware 6.0 w/ the latest web updates hundreds of times on dozens of machines (98SE, 2000, XP) without the slightest problem
I just do the standard scan and remove whatever it finds
This is not a cure all
That is why I use HijackThis
This program is only for people who understand what it is telling them so no tech support in their right mind could recommend it but if you read the results from the registry carefully you can remove a lot of crap
ScriptSentry is another tool that can keep 'secret' scripts from running
A
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Post #128,883
12/4/03 11:41:01 AM
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That's nice.
I've seen AdAware break things.
Plus, re-read what I said about spyware-supported free software (note small "f") and the license agreements thereof. Dell cannot be seen to be in any way involved in the breaking of said agreements; which, rightly or wrongly, ARE IN PLACE.
I also stand by my position that Dell have no obligation to support stuff you've installed; indeed, how on earth are they supposed to? When on the phone, users lie. They get things wrong. They don't tell you what's happening. They tell you things that aren't happening. Now, when it's your stuff, you can have ways of verifying the state of the system, because you know what's there. How in blue blazes are you supposed to talk a lying, mistaken, deceiving user through EDITING THEIR REGISTRY, for example, or using a piece of software that does same, with any kind of confidence that a positive outcome will be achieved?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #128,898
12/4/03 12:06:59 PM
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Gateway's solution.
You install something or get a virus. System gets broken.
You get a brand-new hard drive image.
They don't fix. They rip and replace.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #128,943
12/4/03 1:51:21 PM
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So's this
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=128825|love that spyware]
A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
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Post #128,958
12/4/03 2:15:51 PM
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So?
Big fat hairy deal. So people install N-CASE. It's bundled with shareware programs. I'm still not seeing why Dell are supposed to support your stupid ass for installing random shit you got off the intarweb.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #129,127
12/5/03 1:24:23 PM
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Conflict of interest
if they even suggest getting a program to remove spyware, then N-Case, a partner to them, would get upset because it sells shareware that could have spyware installed.
Just like SBC/Yahoo having weak Spam controls because they sell their customer lists to Spammers. Why block Spam and risk getting sued by people they sell email lists to?
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #129,225
12/6/03 1:39:29 AM
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You're missing the point
as usual.
Dell don't recommend spyware removal tools because they're far more worried about getting their ass sued off by:
1. The customers whose PCs have been wrecked by AdAware and friends
2. The companies whose software EULAs have been violated by the removal of said spyware.
That's why. It's a business decision.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #129,474
12/7/03 5:58:50 PM
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It still does not help the user
to tell them to go f-off. That is the point I've been trying to make.
Spyware is a serious issue, Dell made a business decision to not support the removal of it. I hope they can live with that if it ends up losing them business in the future.
Well to people like me it presents an opportunity to clean up said computers infected with Spyware when the OEM won't even touch it. For just $35USD for one hour's worth of work, I could clean off the Spyware and uninstall the programs that depend on it, and fix whatever damage the removal of said Spyware causes. Then tell the customer not to install programs that use Spyware, or else I'll be back charging them another $35USD to remove it from their systems. Back when I had a tech support business, before Spyware was so rampant, it was hard to get tech support issues unless DLL Hell, or overinstalling programs caused Windows to barf on itself.
Once I graduate with that business management degree, I may start up another small company to do tech support and programming functions. Dell won't support the removal of spyware, but we will, for a price. Well worth it to get a P4 to stop acting like a 286 because over 500+ spyware apps are installed.
Dell's loss is my gain. If any company sues me over it, I'll countersue them for making software that potentially causes damage and degrades system performance on a system and captures keystrokes, etc. I am sure that I can get spyware seen as a virus by some smart lawyers, esp the ones that capture keystrokes and passwords. They will then have to deal with some negative PR when I make the whole case public and report it to the media.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #129,483
12/7/03 6:59:12 PM
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You may wish to think that through more carefully.
Some of the snoop programs hook into registry fairly aggressively. If you automatically rip them out, you can total the OS. That's not an accident; it's by design. You may wish to reconsider the consequences of blindly telling somebody that you can clean their machine.
Dell does not want the responsibility of reverse engineering all the snoops out there and assuring the victims that everything will be all right. That's because everything will probably not be all right. And Dell doesn't want the responsibility. I don't blame them.
I suspect that your business plan is open to criticism. You might feed a lot of lawyers, but at the end of the day, you will be working for coolie wages, have pissed off customers, and you still won't be able to tell if the OS is behaving badly because of spyware or because it's naturally fucked.
You could be right, but I kinda doubt it. There's got to be a more positive way to make a living.
Again, another 2 coppers,
Hugh
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Post #129,496
12/7/03 7:51:47 PM
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I have had good luck so far
100% of the systems that had Spyware on them got fixed by Spybot. No trashing of the OS. I think Spybot is much better than Ad-Aware at removing spyware.
If the system can't be fixed, we can offer to backup the data files and reinstall the OS. We will tell the customer before removing the spyware that some spyware can damage the OS, or that their OS may already be damaged beyond repair before we attempt a fix. Only way to know for sure is to attempt to remove the spyware first. I guess make a list of spyware that damages the OS when removed and only scan first and if that spyware is on the list, tell the customer that the spyware in question cannot be removed without consequences. That a reformat and reinstall may be in order, which will cost more. Then let the customer decide before attempting to remove it or reinstall the OS.
Still I would want to get away from the tech support business and focus on application building, but so many people expirence this problem and the OEMs like Dell do not want to fix it for them. So I see a niche to enter into, unless some other local business does it first. I could train a teenager $7/hr to fix and repair spyware, and back up data files and reformat the hard drive and reinstall the OS. They would carry a CDRW drive on a parallel or USB port to save the data to before the reformat. I could train him or her to check the spyware list first before removing and if spyware that has hooks into the OS are spotted to offer the customer a discount on the reformat and reinstall fee.
I got until 2005 to decide to do this, that is when I should have my degree.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #129,513
12/7/03 8:53:01 PM
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I'm sure that's fine with Dell.
No other computer manufacturer is going to support scumware removal either, and they shouldn't. It's not an OEM sort of problem.
As a service provider, I remove scumware just about every day, because that's what a service provider does. Even if it's a machine I built I charge full hourly rate for doing so (though I'll proabably be busy at something else during the scan to keep the cost down). Sometimes it destroys TCP/IP, so that costs the customer a little more.
As far as legalities, I'm doing the work in the name of the customer, and I tell them what I'm going to do. They should certainly have the right to have someone remove whatever they please from their own computer, but whatever, it's done by their say-so.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #129,525
12/7/03 9:40:30 PM
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I am in full agreement with you
and I always get the customer's permission before I muck around with their system and I always try to tell them the risks involved and what alternatives I may have to take.
After all, someone has to cater to the customer's needs, they need spyware removed, and I will do it for them or have an employee do it for them. For a price of course. I might have to make a deal with the guy who writes the Spybot program to give him a percentage of the fees to remove spyware in exchange for a list of spyware programs that damage the registry beyond repair, and ways they can be repaired if possible. One day he may change the program from donations to registration codes, if that is the case I'll include the fee to register the program in with the fee to remove the spyware. Maybe I can get a bulk discount for that? :)
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #129,001
12/4/03 5:39:33 PM
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Care to share the scripts?
My CEO's kid just had that problem yesterday--need to remove/reinstall TCP/IP and I simply don't have the time to do it for him.
I was one of the original authors of VB, and *I* wouldn't use VB for a text
processing program. :-) Michael Geary, on comp.lang.python
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