Dell To Customers: "We're not uninstalling your spyware".

Post #128,578

12/3/03 8:04:41 AM

Actually, it all sounds eminently sensible to me.

Dell have apparently issued a memo[0] to their techs forbidding them from assisting customers with the removal of spyware, installing spyware removal programs, or even recommending particular products.

There's a goodly section of the internet that's decided to get its panties in a knot about this. Apparently, a large number of people think that downloading random shit from the internet, installing it and watching it mess up their computer is Dell's problem.

Another bunch of folks seem to think that no, downloading/installing/etc random shit from the internet is bad, but Dell should help out.

Me? I think that Dell should keep WELL away from products like Ad-Aware.

I've personally seen Ad-Aware break things; it's extremely (read: over) zealous at times. It removes spyware in violation of said spyware's EULA (i.e. You only get $NIFTYAPP if you agree to have Bonzi Buddy installed, etc). Now, I hate spyware as much as the next chap, but if you clicked "OK" on that EULA without reading it, then tough noogies. You're now a legitimate (if rather small) target.

Well, can you imagine the legal shitstorm that would occur if Dell started recommending this product? J. Random Ad-Aware User might not be a target for litigation, but Dell sure as hell is.

As one poster on Slashdot dryly [link|http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=87870&cid=7615205|pointed out]:

[0] [link|http://channels.lockergnome.com/windows/backissues/20031126.phtml|http://channels.lock...es/20031126.phtml] (Scroll down, or search the page for "Dude!"

Post #128,597

by andread

12/3/03 10:09:38 AM

Re: Dell: "We're not uninstalling your spyware".

the problem is that much of the spyware is not installed in any obvious manner
you do not click a box saying OK or agree to a EULA
the stuff runs in the background of 'legitimate' downloads
shareware developers have found that they can get paid to install payloads in their programs that run spyware
many of these programs attach themselves to IE, which as we all know is an integral part of Windows which is sold by Dell, used by Dell in its ads and without which there may not be a Dell
it is illegal to intentionally damage someone else's computer and may even violate the so-called anti-terror laws
I have cleaned x computers at work as well as major traumas with my son's laptop
I rely on AdAware, HijackThis, ScriptSentry to get me through the day
None of these tools are risk-free but they all ask you to choose and confirm your actions before you take them
blaming the user is a cop-out
the Internet has to move beyond the Wild West period
I would shed no tears if the developers of searchdot.net or those programs that pop-up hundreds of browser windows until the computer crashes were locked up
Dell, the other OEMs, MS and most of all government need to do something

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]

Post #128,599

by pwhysall

12/3/03 10:13:58 AM

So....

You think Dell *should* wipe your bottom after you've shat all over your computer?

Post #128,614

by andread

12/3/03 11:31:16 AM

Re: So....

Actually someone else is doing the shitting as you can see from my earlier post

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]

Post #128,623

by pwhysall

12/3/03 12:09:30 PM

No, they're not.

Like it or not, Gator and friends DO present EULA dialog boxes and such; that blue, underlined text in the "Security Warning" box takes you to the EULA for Gator and the time thingy, for example.

This shit doesn't "accidentally" install itself; you DO click "OK" at some point.

Of course, if you'd like to propose a concrete example of silently self-installing spy/adware, be my guest.

Post #128,627

by orion

12/3/03 12:22:08 PM

Sorry to dissapoint you

I always click "No" when I see Gator and other pop-up boxes. Yet Spybot still finds this crap installed on my hard drive. Not to mention tracking cookies I did not approve of yet there they are. So I did not agree to any EULA yet it shat all over my hard drive anyway. :(

Post #128,629

by pwhysall

12/3/03 12:28:50 PM

What crap?

*BE SPECIFIC*. Without saying WHAT you've installed (yes, YOU) you're just handwaving.

Post #128,642

by andread

12/3/03 1:24:28 PM

Re: What crap?

Surreptitious installation of spy software isn\ufffdt new; but EMail PI claims its the first to hide the installation in a greeting card.
[link|http://www.msnbc.com/news/828942.asp|from this article]

I've been down this road with my son many times
He knows not to accept offers to install this or that that pop-up from web sites
He knows that you can uncheck boxes when installing software to limit what gets loaded on the machine
Yet he has been victimized by many BHOs (as HijackThis calls them) that 'help' the browser or hijack the home page
Some of these are really devious and hard to remove
a legitimate program can be uninstalled from Control Panel
you wouldn't need to run 2 or 3 types of s/w to find out what is running

here's an insidious example: searchdot.net

not only does it hijack your homepage and launch pop-ups that are not blocked by standard pop-up blockers because they are considered user requests but it also uses a script that replaces the homepage everytime you reboot no matter how often you change your homepage or edit your registry
the script is (or was, these things 'evolve') named
msoffice.hta
so even if you see it when running HijackThis you tend to leave it there
also it is placed in the \\windows\\fonts folder which is passed over by standard searches in Windows so it you know it is there and search you don't find it

so what's your version of tech support:

"my computer crashed"
"have you done anything since buying it besides turn it on or off"
"yes"
"fuck off"

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]

Post #128,645

by Nightowl

12/3/03 1:32:59 PM

Re: What crap?

Wow... makes me glad I don't open ecards using the browser (by clicking on the links), and not until John is here watching, as a rule!

When and if I ever open one, and only in Yahoo, I go to the site and enter a code, plus, I never open one I don't know the recipient of.

Man... and people used to tell me I was paranoid because I wouldn't open ecards until John got home. Turns out I was rather smart.

Nightowl >8#

"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}

Post #128,712

by pwhysall

12/3/03 6:05:32 PM

12/4/03 1:18:58 AM

Ignore

Dunno what I was thinking when I posted this.

Edited by pwhysall Dec. 4, 2003, 01:18:58 AM EST

Expand All History

Post #129,121

by orion

12/5/03 1:08:37 PM

I didn't install a thing

except maybe Spybot. I doubt Spybot would install Gator. I have Spybot remove it, and surf the web. Another Gator screen comes up viewing a web page and I click "No" when it asks me if I want to install it. I run Spybot again and it finds another copy of Gator on my hard drive. This also happens for other software like Alexia, etc. I always say "No" and yet Spybot finds it on my hard drive anyway.

Maybe the programmers watch too much "Spongbob Squarepants" and the "No means yes" episode? :)

Post #128,619

by Nightowl

12/3/03 11:54:02 AM

Just one more reason....

I'm glad I don't use IE or EVER download anything without John here.

Nightowl >8#

"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."

Comment by Nightowl {O,O}

Post #128,626

by orion

12/3/03 12:19:53 PM

Customers to Dell, we are not buying our next computer

from you. We expect you to solve our problems, even when we shoot ourselves in the foot and install random Internet apps. So what if we got 500+ Spyware apps and our Pentium 4 runs like a 286 now. We want you to fix the problem, or else we will be finding another company to purchase our equipment from.

I have reconmended Spybot to many people, they have thanked me for it. One was my college instructor, and someone used Spyware to steal his password and send out Spam using his email. Spyware is an invasion of privacy and should be made illegal.

When I ran a computer support company, customers expected us to solve the problems they had with installed shareware apps. We did for $35USD an hour. Told them it was not covered by warranty. Didn't get very many to pay the bill, but why should we give them free support for something they messed up, and for which the warranty does not cover? $35USD an hour is cheap, I've seen companies charge more than that. I fixed the problems, got rid of the shareware programs or reinstalled the DLLs that they shat all over. That was before Spyware removal tools existed. Now if someone has a problem, I just tell them to run Spybot, or I run it for them. "I had no idea that the Spyware could slow down my machine so much. It runs 1000% better now." they will usually say.

Thing about the EULAs, the customer has an option to quit using the software at any time. When they quit using it, they need to uninstall it, but the Spyware remains behind.

Post #128,628

by pwhysall

12/3/03 12:27:54 PM

Balls.

I've got a Dell Dimension 8300 (cards on the table) and I've got nary a qualm about buying MORE Dell computers.

This flat out isn't Dell's problem. Here's why.

Take a user; call him Norm. He's got Gator, and Bonzi Buddy, and so on and so forth installed. He doesn't want them.

He calls Dell.

Dell tech sends him off to the lavasoft.com web site from where Norm downloads and installs AdAware, which then duly proceeds to do whatever dubious things it does to Norm's registry.

Now, Internet Explorer doesn't work, Norm can't print, and Outlook Express is decidedly ill.

Norm decides that Dell's advice was *bad*. Which it was - Dell directed Norm to use a program that had profoundly adverse effects on Norm's computer.

Norm lost some vital business information that has cost him a lot of money. Norm sues Dell, and succeeds in winning a high-profile lawsuit for a lot of money.

Now do you see why the random shit you install on your PC ("I just click OK on all dialogue boxes that I see" isn't a valid defence) just isn't Dell's problem?

They support what they ship, and in my experience they do that very well.

They're the biggest PC builder in the world because they ship the right product at the right price and get it right often enough that consumers and corporates alike want more of it.

[Aside: I've noticed in all the discussions of this topic that the "My Shit Is Dell's Problem" brigade are always very vague on the subject of "Spyware". You mention some "spyware" that stole a password and sent spam. What is it called? To me, that's a virus.]

Post #129,126

by orion

12/5/03 1:17:57 PM

It is not a virus

and it is not picked up by NAV or Macafee. My instructor had it on his system and someone stole his password. Virus scans turned up nothing, and he wondered how someone got a copy of his password?

Yes to you it is a virus, but to the virus scanners it is not a virus because it got installed with some other software and if the virus scanner removes it, the company that wrote it will sue. Some Spyware apps capture keystrokes and passwords and credit card numbers. These things should be against the law, but they are not.

I gave him the link to install Spybot. It found 500+ Spyware apps on his hard drive. It did not destroy his IE, Outlook, etc, in fact it made his machine run 1000% faster than it had with the Spyware installed. He said it was like using an old 286.

Now Dell doesn't support the removal of Spyware. What do they suggest that their customers who have Spyware do? Reformat the hard drive? Learn to live with it?

How likely is a Dell customer going to buy a new Dell after being told their problem is not supported by Dell?

I've had situations where trojans disabled IE, Outlook, printing, etc. After running a program like "The Cleaner" and then reinstalling the software that no longer worked, I was able to fix the problem with no loss of data.

Post #129,224

by pwhysall

12/6/03 1:37:41 AM

12/6/03 2:17:26 AM

Blather.

What spyware applications that aren't viruses "capture passwords"?

I don't give a flying shit what SpyBot did or did not do to someone else's computer. I said that I saw AdAware inflict damage on the registry of a computer.

Whatever you think about Dell, there's a certain class of problems that isn't their responsibility. In that class are such things as particularly trying crossword clues, your marital problems, and spyware that you installed after you bought the computer.

I've got a Dell (Dimension 8300 P4 3GHz, 1GB RAM, 200G disk, Radeon 9800 Pro, 18" LCD monitor). I buy, deploy and support them at work (eating my own dogfood, if you will). There was no spyware on it when I got it, and funnily enough, there isn't any spyware on it now. [I've forgotten more about Dell's factory software build and support infrastructure than you will ever know.]

The default build for the Dimension is fairly minimal - I got the usual slew of ADSL/modem tools, a few bits and pieces for ISPs who've done a deal, and Microsoft Works 7.0. The rest was drivers and stuff to make the DVD/DVD-RW drives go.

The default build on an OptiPlex is even more spartan. Windows, a link to the Dell support thinger, and that's yer lot.

No Spyware.

Edited by pwhysall Dec. 6, 2003, 02:17:26 AM EST

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Post #129,475

by orion

12/7/03 6:06:08 PM

The definition is simple

Spyware is software that the user agrees to install or is part of an EULA of other software.

Check out the definitions:
[link|http://www.google.com/search?q=define:Spyware|http://www.google.co...?q=define:Spyware]

Here is how Yahoo defines it:
[link|http://security.yahoo.com/spyware.html|http://security.yahoo.com/spyware.html]

Yes many Spyware apps do capture keystrokes including user ids and passwords. As a security conscience network admin, you do not want the users on your network to have spyware on their systems. Imagine the authors of spyware having every letter or document your users have typed available on their systems. Imagine not just the identity theft, but the theft of ideas and business secrets, customer lists, credit card information, and other things that spyware can steal from your users' systems.

That is why I think that spyware should be against the law.

Post #128,737

by Ashton

12/3/03 8:10:09 PM

Not so fast..

While I'm (now) well aware that Dell's service to businesses is reputed to be generally BS-free, if they are large enough -- nothing could be more the opposite re the non-business individual purchaser.

In principle I'm in agreement re debate about where Dell's sales-config responsibility ends; however - for them to instruct their script-reading droids to not even *mention* that there exist measures the customer may elect to employ -- smacks of the Far-Right's equivalent proscription {they hope} limiting an MDs even discussion of birth-control.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread too, the continued blind-in-bed M$/Dell axis - is selling into a milieu at least abetted by Michael Dell's spineless accommodation of such Crap-ware as Win-MErde, and leaving many in That lurch. As this rampant and accelerating adware scourge cripples more and more 'Doze machines: your sterile Yes/No re help.. just may create unintended new consequences for Michael and Billy -- as I certainly hope occurs.

(I'll have more to add whenever my friend's lawsuit reaches a judge. What I know from personal on-phone experience - is the artful and then merely odious scripted-Unhelpfulness of Dell phone 'support' and its next-level managers. The duplicity began from the day of her order -- and a delayed arrival of ~ 1 month -- lied about, weekly. I have heard enough live, to despise all who sail in her, and to suggest that no *individual* buy even a calendar from this Billy-style near--monopoly.)

Evidence abounds elsewhere too, that for the individual: Dell frequently does NOT honor even their extra-cost on-site warranty - via dissembling and bafflegab, some of which we have on (sound-part of) videtape of moi/Dell interactions.

OTOH, I would agree that some of their mechanical pieces are well conceived: to wit the handy trouble leds on those [Custom!] Dell mobos. Logic + those can tell one a lot. Etc. But mechanicals is Not enough - pity you can't hear some of the prescripted shit I have recorded from this creepy Corp's minions.)

(Nice that YMDV - but not Nice enough.)

Ashton

Fuck Dell.

Post #128,778

by pwhysall

12/4/03 1:17:38 AM

Re: Not so fast..

Ashton, AdAware and friends BREAKS COMPUTERS. Not often, mind, but that's no consolation when it's YOUR computer.
Dell cannot, should not and must not recommend software that might leave the user's computer in a worse state than it was before. And why the hell should they? They support what they ship.

One might say, of course, that users running Windows who blindly clicking "OK" on whatever dialogue boxes appear deserve everything they get.

Well, that's nice and all, but I'm certain that Dell are no worse than the Taiwanese sweatshop owners who make the components. Once you're into big companies, they're all bastards. It just depends on how much of it you see. At least Dell do support their products, no matter how badly.

Post #128,785

by Andrew Grygus

12/4/03 1:53:19 AM

Running AdAware can cause TCP/IP to stop working

I haven't seen it for awhile, so maybe they fixed something, but some scumware changed TCP/IP programs and AdAware removed something that caused TCP/IP to not work. Just reinstalling Windows over the current install did not fix the problem.

I had to set up a procedure and scripts to remove and reinstall TCP/IP to get around this. It isn't at all simple because Microsoft doesn't have a remove/reinstall for TCP/IP and without the scripts I wrote it's incredibly tedious. Dell would have a heck of a time walking someone through it over the phone, probably at least 2 hours.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]

Post #128,823

by andread

12/4/03 9:17:08 AM

Re: Running AdAware can cause TCP/IP to stop working

I've used Ad-Aware 6.0 w/ the latest web updates hundreds of times on dozens of machines (98SE, 2000, XP) without the slightest problem
I just do the standard scan and remove whatever it finds
This is not a cure all
That is why I use HijackThis
This program is only for people who understand what it is telling them so no tech support in their right mind could recommend it but if you read the results from the registry carefully you can remove a lot of crap
ScriptSentry is another tool that can keep 'secret' scripts from running

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]

Post #128,883

by pwhysall

12/4/03 11:41:01 AM

That's nice.

I've seen AdAware break things.

Plus, re-read what I said about spyware-supported free software (note small "f") and the license agreements thereof. Dell cannot be seen to be in any way involved in the breaking of said agreements; which, rightly or wrongly, ARE IN PLACE.

I also stand by my position that Dell have no obligation to support stuff you've installed; indeed, how on earth are they supposed to? When on the phone, users lie. They get things wrong. They don't tell you what's happening. They tell you things that aren't happening. Now, when it's your stuff, you can have ways of verifying the state of the system, because you know what's there. How in blue blazes are you supposed to talk a lying, mistaken, deceiving user through EDITING THEIR REGISTRY, for example, or using a piece of software that does same, with any kind of confidence that a positive outcome will be achieved?

Post #128,898

by bepatient

12/4/03 12:06:59 PM

Gateway's solution.

You install something or get a virus. System gets broken.

You get a brand-new hard drive image.

They don't fix. They rip and replace.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition}

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

Post #128,943

by andread

12/4/03 1:51:21 PM

So's this

[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=128825|love that spyware]

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://wxxe.org|Tune In]

Post #128,958

by pwhysall

12/4/03 2:15:51 PM

So?

Big fat hairy deal. So people install N-CASE. It's bundled with shareware programs. I'm still not seeing why Dell are supposed to support your stupid ass for installing random shit you got off the intarweb.

Post #129,127

by orion

12/5/03 1:24:23 PM

Conflict of interest

if they even suggest getting a program to remove spyware, then N-Case, a partner to them, would get upset because it sells shareware that could have spyware installed.

Just like SBC/Yahoo having weak Spam controls because they sell their customer lists to Spammers. Why block Spam and risk getting sued by people they sell email lists to?

Post #129,225

by pwhysall

12/6/03 1:39:29 AM

You're missing the point

as usual.

Dell don't recommend spyware removal tools because they're far more worried about getting their ass sued off by:

1. The customers whose PCs have been wrecked by AdAware and friends
2. The companies whose software EULAs have been violated by the removal of said spyware.

That's why. It's a business decision.

Post #129,474

by orion

12/7/03 5:58:50 PM

It still does not help the user

to tell them to go f-off. That is the point I've been trying to make.

Spyware is a serious issue, Dell made a business decision to not support the removal of it. I hope they can live with that if it ends up losing them business in the future.

Well to people like me it presents an opportunity to clean up said computers infected with Spyware when the OEM won't even touch it. For just $35USD for one hour's worth of work, I could clean off the Spyware and uninstall the programs that depend on it, and fix whatever damage the removal of said Spyware causes. Then tell the customer not to install programs that use Spyware, or else I'll be back charging them another $35USD to remove it from their systems. Back when I had a tech support business, before Spyware was so rampant, it was hard to get tech support issues unless DLL Hell, or overinstalling programs caused Windows to barf on itself.

Once I graduate with that business management degree, I may start up another small company to do tech support and programming functions. Dell won't support the removal of spyware, but we will, for a price. Well worth it to get a P4 to stop acting like a 286 because over 500+ spyware apps are installed.

Dell's loss is my gain. If any company sues me over it, I'll countersue them for making software that potentially causes damage and degrades system performance on a system and captures keystrokes, etc. I am sure that I can get spyware seen as a virus by some smart lawyers, esp the ones that capture keystrokes and passwords. They will then have to deal with some negative PR when I make the whole case public and report it to the media.

Post #129,483

by hnick

12/7/03 6:59:12 PM

You may wish to think that through more carefully.

Some of the snoop programs hook into registry fairly aggressively. If you automatically rip them out, you can total the OS. That's not an accident; it's by design. You may wish to reconsider the consequences of blindly telling somebody that you can clean their machine.
Dell does not want the responsibility of reverse engineering all the snoops out there and assuring the victims that everything will be all right. That's because everything will probably not be all right. And Dell doesn't want the responsibility. I don't blame them.
I suspect that your business plan is open to criticism. You might feed a lot of lawyers, but at the end of the day, you will be working for coolie wages, have pissed off customers, and you still won't be able to tell if the OS is behaving badly because of spyware or because it's naturally fucked.
You could be right, but I kinda doubt it. There's got to be a more positive way to make a living.

Again, another 2 coppers,

Hugh

Post #129,496

by orion

12/7/03 7:51:47 PM

I have had good luck so far

100% of the systems that had Spyware on them got fixed by Spybot. No trashing of the OS. I think Spybot is much better than Ad-Aware at removing spyware.

If the system can't be fixed, we can offer to backup the data files and reinstall the OS. We will tell the customer before removing the spyware that some spyware can damage the OS, or that their OS may already be damaged beyond repair before we attempt a fix. Only way to know for sure is to attempt to remove the spyware first. I guess make a list of spyware that damages the OS when removed and only scan first and if that spyware is on the list, tell the customer that the spyware in question cannot be removed without consequences. That a reformat and reinstall may be in order, which will cost more. Then let the customer decide before attempting to remove it or reinstall the OS.

Still I would want to get away from the tech support business and focus on application building, but so many people expirence this problem and the OEMs like Dell do not want to fix it for them. So I see a niche to enter into, unless some other local business does it first. I could train a teenager $7/hr to fix and repair spyware, and back up data files and reformat the hard drive and reinstall the OS. They would carry a CDRW drive on a parallel or USB port to save the data to before the reformat. I could train him or her to check the spyware list first before removing and if spyware that has hooks into the OS are spotted to offer the customer a discount on the reformat and reinstall fee.

I got until 2005 to decide to do this, that is when I should have my degree.

Post #129,513

by Andrew Grygus

12/7/03 8:53:01 PM

I'm sure that's fine with Dell.

No other computer manufacturer is going to support scumware removal either, and they shouldn't. It's not an OEM sort of problem.

As a service provider, I remove scumware just about every day, because that's what a service provider does. Even if it's a machine I built I charge full hourly rate for doing so (though I'll proabably be busy at something else during the scan to keep the cost down). Sometimes it destroys TCP/IP, so that costs the customer a little more.

As far as legalities, I'm doing the work in the name of the customer, and I tell them what I'm going to do. They should certainly have the right to have someone remove whatever they please from their own computer, but whatever, it's done by their say-so.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]

Post #129,525

by orion

12/7/03 9:40:30 PM

I am in full agreement with you

and I always get the customer's permission before I muck around with their system and I always try to tell them the risks involved and what alternatives I may have to take.

After all, someone has to cater to the customer's needs, they need spyware removed, and I will do it for them or have an employee do it for them. For a price of course. I might have to make a deal with the guy who writes the Spybot program to give him a percentage of the fees to remove spyware in exchange for a list of spyware programs that damage the registry beyond repair, and ways they can be repaired if possible. One day he may change the program from donations to registration codes, if that is the case I'll include the fee to register the program in with the fee to remove the spyware. Maybe I can get a bulk discount for that? :)

Post #129,001

by FuManChu

12/4/03 5:39:33 PM

Care to share the scripts?

My CEO's kid just had that problem yesterday--need to remove/reinstall TCP/IP and I simply don't have the time to do it for him.

Michael Geary, on comp.lang.python

Post #128,803

by static

12/4/03 7:30:36 AM

I see the potential for confusion.

Specifically, whilst Dell does not support or advise on spyware removal programs, do Dell PCs come preloaded with spyware? The page linked to from SlashDot points that that Dell does not install spyware. This makes your position - and Dell's - perfectly reasonable, Peter.

Wade.

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Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed

Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

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