The success of the "My Documents" folder . .

. . indicates designs that work can be found. Many have even started making subdirectories within My Documents, somthing they found incomprehensible when the abstractions were less related to physical experience.

The fact that "My Documents" contained another folder, "My Pictures" finally got the point accross that other folders were possible, and that stuff could even be dragged from My Documents into them. This was something they previously could not comprehend. Many still can't comprehend it and have 790 doucument "My Documents" folders, but progress is happening.

All computer stuff is abstractions heaped on abstractions piled on abstractions. The problem is abstractions obvious to software desgners are meningless to others. Developing workable abstractions is going to be an evolutionary thing.

For my part, I'm making progress too. I'm now willing to use filenames up to 18 characters long, maybe even 20, but I doubt I'll ever allow spaces in them.

WHOLLY SHIT that is truly Astounding! even more-so coming from you -
since I appreciate by now that you don't exaggerate about such matters. Your comments above are nothing less than a massive Sociology Goldmine.. for anybody working in this field and also capable of original thought (if there are a handful left anywhere, still with such qualifications?) An appalling state of affairs. This is PhD thesis material, I trust you realize! And from just this terse report, I envision even more appalling consequences - as always There Are.

This is 'Who' We Are,
a Rorshak of the "workforce" from PHB through commodity-worker. (With the appropriately demonstrated inverted IQ-tree, as all PHB lore demonstrates - for extra Degree-credit .. if one dares to speak starkly what the Rorshak reveals.)

Remember all the flak Billy received for Bob ??
(Was it his pre-wife's project.. or was that just wonderfully wry gossip?)
Because - I think you just made the case for Ex Pee Bob.
And no - it just may Not be "too late.." Nor certainly is it "too silly". For, thou hast said the way It Is.

(maybe call it Ex Pee Billy, Your Friendly Fluffy Bunny All-in-One Solution Provider and Entertainment Center)

But after all the fun & games, what you just outlined - indicates the source of much of the obv resentment of the (messenger) Keepers of these 'systems'; resentment.. ON ALL LEVELS! -- 'IT' as incomprehensible to the chain-ganged cubicle-pent users as is the mystery of successfully punching out chads in a ballot.

We took guys n'gals who don't ever change the oil or add battery water in their Chevy pickup, can't set a VCR or guess.. how an internal combustion engine might work - and told em to fly this here Space Shuttle, without even a cartoon manual: as clearly befits the actual need / the dumbth-level.

And [link|http://www.nclug.org/pipermail/nclug/2001-November/002278.html| this Gem], linked by Karsten in the M$ forum, and dated 12 Nov 2001:

Appears to indicate != "what the title suggests" (Why Linux will win and Micro$oft will lose). My very own tinylittlebrain informs me that:

Even were *nix installed in its Highest current form - with those essential Policies and QC of {what else} Debian, and by Karsten or Greg or Peter et al;
even-if a new KDE [or whatever] Doze-friendly GUI were rock-solid and the Main-aps 99.x% Billy-compatible;
even if installing a modem were Not an exercise in "find the right config files / BTW - how Many do I Need to find?"
even if CUPS self-started and auto-configured to any old printing-thing within 100 meters;
even if - _____

You just described a Bob-World, and prolly not just for Muricans.
Forget Linux. (except as a hobby for Chess players: it's a Checkers world)

{sigh}

SHIT - Dubya, Faith-Based Invasions\ufffd, Neoconman hordes shoutin BS everywhere, general language murder, RIAA Beast-apitalists, 'depression' rampant in the psyches of the Bob-crowd - despite billions of expensive pills AND Depression-not-recession re. gettin the fish heads and rice into the hovel . . .

Think I'll fire up some Wagner and open the '61 d'Yqem.
(I'm sure glad that none of this stuff actualy matters)

Post #122,935 by Andrew Grygus 10/27/03 11:55:48 AM Reply	The success of the "My Documents" folder . . . . indicates designs that work can be found. Many have even started making subdirectories within My Documents, somthing they found incomprehensible when the abstractions were less related to physical experience. The fact that "My Documents" contained another folder, "My Pictures" finally got the point accross that other folders were possible, and that stuff could even be dragged from My Documents into them. This was something they previously could not comprehend. Many still can't comprehend it and have 790 doucument "My Documents" folders, but progress is happening. All computer stuff is abstractions heaped on abstractions piled on abstractions. The problem is abstractions obvious to software desgners are meningless to others. Developing workable abstractions is going to be an evolutionary thing. For my part, I'm making progress too. I'm now willing to use filenames up to 18 characters long, maybe even 20, but I doubt I'll ever allow spaces in them. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #122,951 by Ashton 10/27/03 1:57:53 PM Reply	Abstractions - and Bob/Linux WHOLLY SHIT that is truly Astounding! even more-so coming from you - since I appreciate by now that you don't exaggerate about such matters. Your comments above are nothing less than a massive Sociology Goldmine.. for anybody working in this field and also capable of original thought (if there are a handful left anywhere, still with such qualifications?) An appalling state of affairs. This is PhD thesis material, I trust you realize! And from just this terse report, I envision even more appalling consequences - as always There Are. This is 'Who' We Are, a Rorshak of the "workforce" from PHB through commodity-worker. (With the appropriately demonstrated inverted IQ-tree, as all PHB lore demonstrates - for extra Degree-credit .. if one dares to speak starkly what the Rorshak reveals.) Remember all the flak Billy received for Bob ?? (Was it his pre-wife's project.. or was that just wonderfully wry gossip?) Because - I think you just made the case for Ex Pee Bob. And no - it just may Not be "too late.." Nor certainly is it "too silly". For, thou hast said the way It Is. (maybe call it Ex Pee Billy, Your Friendly Fluffy Bunny All-in-One Solution Provider and Entertainment Center) But after all the fun & games, what you just outlined - indicates the source of much of the obv resentment of the (messenger) Keepers of these 'systems'; resentment.. ON ALL LEVELS! -- 'IT' as incomprehensible to the chain-ganged cubicle-pent users as is the mystery of successfully punching out chads in a ballot. We took guys n'gals who don't ever change the oil or add battery water in their Chevy pickup, can't set a VCR or guess.. how an internal combustion engine might work - and told em to fly this here Space Shuttle, without even a cartoon manual: as clearly befits the actual need / the dumbth-level. And [link\|http://www.nclug.org/pipermail/nclug/2001-November/002278.html\| this Gem], linked by Karsten in the M$ forum, and dated 12 Nov 2001: Appears to indicate != "what the title suggests" (Why Linux will win and Micro$oft will lose). My very own tinylittlebrain informs me that: Even were nix installed in its Highest current form - with those essential Policies and QC of {what else} Debian, and by Karsten or Greg or Peter et al; even-if a new KDE [or whatever] Doze-friendly GUI were rock-solid and the Main-aps 99.x% Billy-compatible; even if installing a modem were Not an exercise in "find the right config files / BTW - how Many do I Need to find?" even if CUPS self-started and auto-configured to any old printing-thing within 100 meters; even if - _____ You just described a Bob-World, and prolly not just for Muricans. Forget Linux. (except as a hobby for Chess players: it's a Checkers world) {sigh} SHIT - Dubya, Faith-Based Invasions\ufffd, Neoconman hordes shoutin BS everywhere, general language murder, RIAA Beast-apitalists, 'depression' rampant in the psyches of the Bob-crowd - despite billions of expensive pills AND Depression*-not-recession re. gettin the fish heads and rice into the hovel . . . Think I'll fire up some Wagner and open the '61 d'Yqem. (I'm sure glad that none of this stuff actualy matters)
Post #122,952 by inthane-chan 10/27/03 2:02:07 PM Reply	Not just a rumor... [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob\|http://en.wikipedia....iki/Microsoft_Bob] Microsoft Bob was a project managed by Melinda French, who later married Bill Gates to become Melinda Gates. Now, how much nepotism had to do with the project is a matter of debate... In that final hour, when each breath is a struggle to take, and you are looking back over your life's accomplishments, which memories would you treasure? The empires you built, or the joy you spread to others? Therin lies the true measure of a man.
Post #122,958 by deSitter 10/27/03 3:56:19 PM Reply	Re: Not just a rumor... Hmm, coulda married that Apple guy - Ms. French Jobs. OK. -drl

Welcome to IWETHEY!