Post #115,056
8/23/03 11:14:44 AM
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well define Enter the field
Go get an A+ Cert 1st, cant even get entry level bech tech without it. Get a bench tech job, listen, learn impress others. Then apply for crap salaried high tech hands on support. Even the largest Indian Outsourcing firm in the world (TATA) has to hire americans to assemble the racks and install the servers.
thanx,
bill
America, Love it or give it back
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #115,063
8/23/03 12:16:14 PM
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Its all gamesmanship at the moment..
....so I really would like to leave "enter" as an exersize for the reader.
My current thought process is to concentrate on networking...I have project management backround already from the biz side.
The comments that I get (and yes, Virginia, I know the timing is bad) all center around the fact that I like computers, I'm pretty good at dealing with them (and in my opinion that "good enough"..isn't..which is why I've always hesitated).
Issue really centers around how to get in somewhere above entry level given the fact that I don't have a classical IT education...which would generally mean I wouldn't have to take a pay hit to make the move.
What i've been trying to do is break over into business process automation and consulting...something that I've been doing from the business process side...and anything that would document me as being at least adequate on the automation side may help me make the move.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #115,065
8/23/03 12:18:14 PM
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Re: Its all gamesmanship at the moment..
Oh, it's YOU?
Well, welcome to our nightmare!!
I'd get a hell-desk job to start - prolly $25 per hour or so, and it's all day on the phone - but given your superior people skills you'll be outstanding. From that you can "migrate" into project management.
-drl
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Post #115,070
8/23/03 1:31:37 PM
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I would suggest looking at a CISCO CERT
followed by a 3 day SS7 course with a RH Cert as well and go into Project management as a contractor around Philly. You too can be a Excel Jockey flogging H1B contractors unmercifully.
thanx,
Bill
America, Love it or give it back
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #115,085
8/23/03 3:53:27 PM
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Join PMI - get a cert
Seriously, the Project Management Institute is a professional organization of - you guessed it - project managers - all kinds of them.
Certs aren't too hard to get for an seasoned employee (one with scars). Believe it or not, I often see Software Proj Mgt postings requesting PMI certification.
Disclaimer - I don't have a PMI cert but am toying with the idea of getting one. Also, I'm writing an article for the Denver chapter newletter on common fanatasies in software project management. This came about when I found myself sitting next to the Denver chapter president at a VC Fund Fest and I gave him an earfull of stupid things project managers do in software. He asked me to write it up for publication.
Smalltalk is dangerous. It is a drug. My advice to you would be don't try it; it could ruin your life. Once you take the time to learn it (to REALLY learn it) you will see that there is nothing out there (yet) to touch it. Of course, like all drugs, how dangerous it is depends on your character. It may be that once you've got to this stage you'll find it difficult (if not impossible) to "go back" to other languages and, if you are forced to, you might become an embittered character constantly muttering ascerbic comments under your breath. Who knows, you may even have to quit the software industry altogether because nothing else lives up to your new expectations.
--AndyBower
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Post #115,489
8/26/03 9:44:21 PM
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PMI?
Have you looked to Project Management Institute certification?
I have some manuals. The funny part is that most of it to me is common sense and yet I'm told that "common sense" isn't real common.
Of course, PMI runs exactly opposite to where I work right now. Ours is the land of nebulous requirements, all night/weekend/day pushes to get something out the door. Then, the realization that it wasn't even close to what we needed.
But, also, I'm happy to have a paycheck, and my boss appreciates my efforts, which is much more than I can say for the previous gig.
Glen Austin
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Post #115,493
8/26/03 9:56:35 PM
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shizzit do you work here?
Spent 30 hrs last week
I need this configured.
Our scheduled time for that is 5 working days.
we need it tomorrow.
see above
management takes a hand done rinse and repeat for several days.
Now configure this we start testing tomorrow.
Sorry we dont have the hardware to do that, if you told me a week ago I would have told you we cannot physically do this
If we got the hardware and paid for it (a whole new platform) 3 weeks, why dont you use the existing one?
isnt it incompatible?
no ITS A FUCKING FAX!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW DOES A FSCKING FAX KNOW WHAT VERSION I AM ON!!!!!!!
management gets involved, all work is halted and they agree that a fax machine cannot determine software version so they will happily continue as planned on the existing platform. 30 hrs wasted.
I will insinuate and subvert in a month no implementation managers can open a ticket without my approval but techs may open at any time. Without a tech we will subvert, because a PM works off of other folks input, and when it is jamming they dont know enough details to order resources properly. It will save both companies, time resources and of course money. Gah,
I have of course been warned that belching out ideas on conference calls with muckymucks will not be tolerated. Luckily my boss(es) are happy to forward these ideas for me.
thanx,
bill
America, Love it or give it back
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #115,883
8/29/03 5:16:57 PM
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PMI and Program Management
To me at least, the technical side of PMI/Program Management isn't that high (ie: your common sense). The HARD part is the people skills. You have to pull estimates (and get statuses) out of programmers who really, REALLY don't want to give them. They you have to give the bad results to upper management who really, REALLY doesn't want to hear bad news.
But that's my take. Personally I think Program Management leads nicely into a management job.
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Post #118,602
9/23/03 2:17:34 PM
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Agree w/ Todd and Glen
With your background, a PMI cert would be the ticket. Besides, suits hate techies, and if you look more like a suit, you'll look more like employed!
Where I am now, the PMI'ers (and they're not bad people) are in great demand, and are actually doing good work for the Company.
jb4
Boy I'd like to see those words on a PR banner behind [Treasury Secretary John] Snow at the podium:
Jobs and Growth: Just Wait.
John J. Andrew, unemployed programmer; see jobforjohn.com
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