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New long blocks
Although I could possibly take exception to "didn't properly handle exceptions" (pun), because you seem to define "proper" to fit your coding preferences, and some of the others, but the bottom line is that I just don't see closures a significant improvement over code I deal with.

For one, I don't like wide-reaching blocks. That is an anti-pattern IMO. I would rather see a CloseFoo command rather than an lonely little "}" sitting far from its parents and deepening the nesting. It is better "self documentation" IMO because I know where the range ends and I know WHAT is ending. "}" is too bland. Most of my close's are at the end of the routine, I would note.

The "ideal" auto-end-bread is situational. One possibility is to have it automatically close at the end of the routine if not done explicitly, but you seemed bothered by this for some reason. (Perhaps because existing languages don't support it well?).

I just don't see the big deal about closures. I don't. Their benefits seem rather minor. Again, I see no reason to move them to the top of my wishlist and it appears that enough others agree because mainstream languages keep omitting them (or at least downplaying them). They have the reputation for being mental masturbation, and part of that *is* deserved IMO.
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Back to the Example ...
Tablizer: Although I could possibly take exception to "didn't properly handle exceptions" (pun), because you seem to define "proper" to fit your coding preferences, [...]

You make it sound arbitary. It is not. In the example code, if an exception thrown during the processing of the file, the file is still properly closed. This is not the case is several of your examples.

So, if it is a "coding preference" to write exception safe code, then so be it.

As for the rest (long blocks, personal preferences, reputation jab), they are side issues; and I won't address them at this time.

The main point is back to your claim of closure advocates providing "lame" non-closure examples. I don't expect to convince you that closures are the coolest thing since sliced bread. I just wanted to make sure you saw a non-lame example.

Can we agree that this is such an example?
--
-- Jim Weirich jweirich@one.net [link|http://onestepback.org|http://onestepback.org]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)
New auto-close
if an exception thrown during the processing of the file, the file is still properly closed. This is not the case is several of your examples.

I don't quite know how they do it (probably destructor-like mechanisms[1]), but in some languages (or OS's), files and DB connections are automatically closed when the EXE or script ends. Thus, if we terminate the execution based on an error, those things are closed automatically.

Maybe languages and tools that you use behave differently. I only call the shots based on my experience. If I don't see something causing problems, I don't focus on looking for language techniques to manage problems that are not there. Something has been spoiling me perhaps......and I like it :-)

[1] Destructors are not limited to OO
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Exceptions
Tablizer: I don't quite know how they do it (probably destructor-like mechanisms[1]), but in some languages (or OS's), files and DB connections are automatically closed when the EXE or script ends. Thus, if we terminate the execution based on an error, those things are closed automatically.

From your comments, it seems that you are not familiar with the behavior of exceptions. Exceptions (generally) don't terminate the program, so depending on the OS to do your cleanup is pointless. It would also explain why your examples ignored exception safety.

I suppose now we can enter a discussion on exceptions and if they are needed for custom biz apps and if they can provide a roughly 5% overall decrease in complexity.

Or not.

Our last conversation on closures broke down on understanding synchronization issues and I don't want to repeat that here with exceptions. So I'm willing to drop the issue.

Perhaps you need to modify your claim to include the phrase "they present a lame non-closure version that depends upon advanced programming techniques (such as exceptions) to compare to".
--
-- Jim Weirich jweirich@one.net [link|http://onestepback.org|http://onestepback.org]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)
New Warning: Discussing exceptions with me is a loooong topic
________________
oop.ismad.com
     Advanced programming languages - why are they not used? - (Arkadiy) - (104)
         question from a non programmer - (boxley) - (11)
             Second through fourth sentences are a blur - (Arkadiy) - (10)
                 sorry, I went from your specific - (boxley) - (9)
                     Well... - (Arkadiy) - (8)
                         I am not smart enough to detect the difference - (boxley) - (7)
                             In C++, "if" is simple - (Arkadiy) - (6)
                                 I think I disagree, maybe - (drewk) - (5)
                                     Re: I think I disagree, maybe - (Arkadiy) - (4)
                                         I was right - (drewk)
                                         Re: I think I disagree, maybe - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                             Perl 6 will take that idea farther - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                 +5 Informative. - (static)
         I regard Smalltalk as a teaching language - (warmachine) - (5)
             Dixit. -NT - (Arkadiy)
             I regard it as the most powerful production tool I have - (tuberculosis)
             couple of comments - (ChrisR) - (2)
                 Re: couple of comments - (warmachine) - (1)
                     Documentation tool? - (ChrisR)
         Your brain is damaged - (tuberculosis) - (13)
             I am not saying - (Arkadiy) - (11)
                 Average guy? Come here and say that! :) - (warmachine) - (6)
                     Either you are, or... - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                         Yep! But give it more time. - (warmachine)
                     What's this got to do with the price of oil in Baghdad? - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                         Oops! You're right. - (warmachine) - (2)
                             You've missed something I think - (tuberculosis)
                             Re: Oops! You're right. - (JimWeirich)
                 OK that's true - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                     Smalltalk for Small Tykes - (JimWeirich)
                     Wrong sense of "narrative". - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                         (Oops) - (Arkadiy)
             modeling English - (tablizer)
         Re: Advanced programming languages - why are they not used? - (deSitter) - (1)
             I was going to mention Forth, - (Arkadiy)
         Bad Marketing - (tablizer) - (69)
             Re-implement these examples, please - (ben_tilly) - (56)
                 Problem description missing - (tablizer) - (55)
                     Problem description - (ben_tilly) - (54)
                         Arrays of arrays? There's your problem.Use relational tables -NT - (tablizer) - (53)
                             Why am I not surprised that you avoided the question? - (ben_tilly) - (52)
                                 hold on, cowboy - (tablizer) - (51)
                                     No, you never do say that you are done - (ben_tilly) - (50)
                                         Okay, I admit it was too sweeping - (tablizer) - (49)
                                             Re: Okay, I admit it was too sweeping - (deSitter)
                                             Thank you - (ben_tilly) - (47)
                                                 that is what I am looking for - (tablizer) - (46)
                                                     Re: that is what I am looking for - (admin) - (6)
                                                         What's that? - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                             Re: What's that? - (admin)
                                                         Actually Java Anonymous Inner Classes - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                             If I remember correctly, - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                 Not entirely accurate. - (admin) - (1)
                                                                     Thanks - (Arkadiy)
                                                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (CRConrad)
                                                     How much are you willing to pay? - (ben_tilly) - (37)
                                                         If you don't have the evidence, then just say so -NT - (tablizer) - (36)
                                                             You win, again - (ben_tilly) - (35)
                                                                 Can't ANYBODY ever find a #@!* BIZ example? -NT - (tablizer) - (34)
                                                                     Ben's given me an idea. - (static) - (4)
                                                                         different "core"? - (tablizer) - (3)
                                                                             That's one way to think of it. - (static) - (2)
                                                                                 But if tree traversal was trivial, then it does not matter - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                     It's a matter of perspective. - (static)
                                                                     A TOP example - (johnu) - (19)
                                                                         re: transaction rollback - (tablizer) - (17)
                                                                             Why not just use a closure? - (johnu) - (16)
                                                                                 Eval () is a kind of closure - (Arkadiy) - (15)
                                                                                     Python supports it... - (admin)
                                                                                     topic is not about me, Mr. Insult - (tablizer)
                                                                                     Re: Eval () is NOT a kind of closure - (JimWeirich) - (12)
                                                                                         You are right. - (Arkadiy) - (11)
                                                                                             All? - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                                                                                                 I was thinking about - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                                                                                                     Thought you had missed those :-) - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                                                                                         Re: Thought you had missed those :-) - (Arkadiy) - (7)
                                                                                                             That mostly works - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                                                                                 Re: That mostly works - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                                                                                                                     Think we are even then - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                                                                         A function to produce list from range - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                                                                                             So? - (ben_tilly)
                                                                                                                 Fake Closures - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                                                                                     Wow - (Arkadiy)
                                                                         Re: A TOP example - (JimWeirich)
                                                                     Multivariate Regression Analysis - (ChrisR) - (8)
                                                                         Why not Eval()? - (tablizer) - (7)
                                                                             The problem is that the equations are part of the data - (ChrisR) - (5)
                                                                                 I am not following you - (tablizer) - (4)
                                                                                     Do you not understand Regression? - (ChrisR) - (3)
                                                                                         Eval can be used to compute arbitrary function - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                                             Eval is "good enuf" for occassional use. - (tablizer) - (1)
                                                                                                 You are not familiar with Ruby then - (ben_tilly)
                                                                             Of course Eval()? - (JimWeirich)
             Re: Bad Marketing - (JimWeirich) - (11)
                 re: closures - (tablizer) - (10)
                     re: closures - (JimWeirich) - (9)
                         bottom bread - (tablizer) - (8)
                             Still waiting for examples - (JimWeirich) - (7)
                                 misunderstanding? - (tablizer) - (6)
                                     misunderstanding? ... Now I'm Confused - (JimWeirich) - (5)
                                         long blocks - (tablizer) - (4)
                                             Back to the Example ... - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                                 auto-close - (tablizer) - (2)
                                                     Exceptions - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                         Warning: Discussing exceptions with me is a loooong topic -NT - (tablizer)

It's like watching someone try to explain quantum physics to a goat.
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