Re: Advanced programming languages - why are they not used?

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Post #106,787

by deSitter

6/21/03 4:18:50 AM

Re: Advanced programming languages - why are they not used?

I remember a programmer who would build up nested IF clauses of stupefying complexity - making the code as unreadable as if it were sprinkled with direct branches. To check his work, he would print out the 10 or so pages his top-level IF clause needed and tape it to the wall, or stretch it out on the floor, so that he could match up all the IFs and ENDIFs.

He never used any of the other available control structures.

(BTW I think I agree with you. FORTH has IF .. ELSE .. THEN. Try getting the above mentioned guy to dig on that :)

-drl

Post #106,810

by Arkadiy

6/21/03 2:15:26 PM

I was going to mention Forth,

but I am not familiar enough with it to talk about it. I can't judge if the expressiveness of Forth is closer to assembly's complexity or to Smalltalk's elegance.

--

Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them.

--Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum

Advanced programming languages - why are they not used? - (Arkadiy) - (104) - June 20, 2003, 10:04:10 AM EDT

question from a non programmer - (boxley) - (11) - June 20, 2003, 10:23:14 AM EDT

Second through fourth sentences are a blur - (Arkadiy) - (10) - June 20, 2003, 10:40:07 AM EDT

sorry, I went from your specific - (boxley) - (9) - June 20, 2003, 10:49:42 AM EDT

Well... - (Arkadiy) - (8) - June 20, 2003, 11:14:55 AM EDT

I am not smart enough to detect the difference - (boxley) - (7) - June 20, 2003, 11:25:14 AM EDT

In C++, "if" is simple - (Arkadiy) - (6) - June 20, 2003, 11:34:47 AM EDT

I think I disagree, maybe - (drewk) - (5) - June 20, 2003, 11:51:41 AM EDT

Re: I think I disagree, maybe - (Arkadiy) - (4) - June 20, 2003, 12:13:50 PM EDT

I was right - (drewk) - June 20, 2003, 01:10:29 PM EDT

Re: I think I disagree, maybe - (tuberculosis) - (2) - June 21, 2003, 12:09:13 AM EDT

Perl 6 will take that idea farther - (ben_tilly) - (1) - June 21, 2003, 04:47:22 PM EDT

+5 Informative. - (static) - June 23, 2003, 07:53:30 AM EDT

I regard Smalltalk as a teaching language - (warmachine) - (5) - June 20, 2003, 08:30:39 PM EDT

Dixit. -NT - (Arkadiy) - June 20, 2003, 09:30:12 PM EDT

I regard it as the most powerful production tool I have - (tuberculosis) - June 21, 2003, 12:19:43 AM EDT

couple of comments - (ChrisR) - (2) - June 21, 2003, 03:15:09 AM EDT

Re: couple of comments - (warmachine) - (1) - June 21, 2003, 08:10:21 PM EDT

Documentation tool? - (ChrisR) - June 21, 2003, 11:41:57 PM EDT

Your brain is damaged - (tuberculosis) - (13) - June 21, 2003, 12:04:55 AM EDT

I am not saying - (Arkadiy) - (11) - June 21, 2003, 02:12:46 PM EDT

Average guy? Come here and say that! :) - (warmachine) - (6) - June 21, 2003, 09:29:32 PM EDT

Either you are, or... - (Arkadiy) - (1) - June 21, 2003, 11:21:03 PM EDT

Yep! But give it more time. - (warmachine) - June 22, 2003, 09:33:31 AM EDT

What's this got to do with the price of oil in Baghdad? - (tuberculosis) - (3) - June 22, 2003, 12:50:49 AM EDT

Oops! You're right. - (warmachine) - (2) - June 22, 2003, 09:01:00 AM EDT

You've missed something I think - (tuberculosis) - June 22, 2003, 01:43:11 PM EDT

Re: Oops! You're right. - (JimWeirich) - June 22, 2003, 01:58:49 PM EDT

OK that's true - (tuberculosis) - (3) - June 22, 2003, 12:17:49 AM EDT

Smalltalk for Small Tykes - (JimWeirich) - June 22, 2003, 01:09:55 AM EDT

Wrong sense of "narrative". - (Arkadiy) - (1) - June 22, 2003, 12:02:45 PM EDT

(Oops) - (Arkadiy) - June 22, 2003, 12:07:50 PM EDT

modeling English - (tablizer) - June 22, 2003, 05:04:41 PM EDT

Re: Advanced programming languages - why are they not used? - (deSitter) - (1) - June 21, 2003, 04:18:50 AM EDT

I was going to mention Forth, - (Arkadiy) - June 21, 2003, 02:15:26 PM EDT

Bad Marketing - (tablizer) - (69) - June 21, 2003, 02:38:06 PM EDT

Re-implement these examples, please - (ben_tilly) - (56) - June 21, 2003, 04:30:05 PM EDT

Problem description missing - (tablizer) - (55) - June 22, 2003, 03:08:05 AM EDT

Problem description - (ben_tilly) - (54) - June 22, 2003, 06:33:35 PM EDT

Arrays of arrays? There's your problem.Use relational tables -NT - (tablizer) - (53) - June 22, 2003, 08:24:15 PM EDT

Why am I not surprised that you avoided the question? - (ben_tilly) - (52) - June 22, 2003, 08:30:07 PM EDT

hold on, cowboy - (tablizer) - (51) - June 22, 2003, 11:56:46 PM EDT

No, you never do say that you are done - (ben_tilly) - (50) - June 23, 2003, 07:59:09 AM EDT

Okay, I admit it was too sweeping - (tablizer) - (49) - June 23, 2003, 04:38:16 PM EDT

Re: Okay, I admit it was too sweeping - (deSitter) - June 23, 2003, 04:14:45 PM EDT

Thank you - (ben_tilly) - (47) - June 24, 2003, 08:00:46 AM EDT

that is what I am looking for - (tablizer) - (46) - June 24, 2003, 04:23:21 PM EDT

Re: that is what I am looking for - (admin) - (6) - June 24, 2003, 04:33:53 PM EDT

What's that? - (deSitter) - (1) - June 24, 2003, 08:42:36 PM EDT

Re: What's that? - (admin) - June 24, 2003, 10:00:36 PM EDT

Actually Java Anonymous Inner Classes - (tuberculosis) - (3) - June 26, 2003, 12:32:37 AM EDT

If I remember correctly, - (Arkadiy) - (2) - June 26, 2003, 11:56:46 AM EDT

Not entirely accurate. - (admin) - (1) - June 26, 2003, 12:13:58 PM EDT

Thanks - (Arkadiy) - June 26, 2003, 12:46:09 PM EDT

ICLRPD (new thread) - (CRConrad) - June 24, 2003, 04:37:32 PM EDT

How much are you willing to pay? - (ben_tilly) - (37) - June 24, 2003, 05:10:46 PM EDT

If you don't have the evidence, then just say so -NT - (tablizer) - (36) - June 24, 2003, 09:25:08 PM EDT

You win, again - (ben_tilly) - (35) - June 24, 2003, 11:24:19 PM EDT

Can't ANYBODY ever find a #@!* BIZ example? -NT - (tablizer) - (34) - June 24, 2003, 11:53:17 PM EDT

Ben's given me an idea. - (static) - (4) - June 25, 2003, 09:14:37 AM EDT

different "core"? - (tablizer) - (3) - June 25, 2003, 09:09:55 PM EDT

That's one way to think of it. - (static) - (2) - June 27, 2003, 07:42:08 AM EDT

But if tree traversal was trivial, then it does not matter - (tablizer) - (1) - June 28, 2003, 12:27:03 AM EDT

It's a matter of perspective. - (static) - June 28, 2003, 08:51:24 AM EDT

A TOP example - (johnu) - (19) - June 25, 2003, 12:52:13 PM EDT

re: transaction rollback - (tablizer) - (17) - June 25, 2003, 08:59:12 PM EDT

Why not just use a closure? - (johnu) - (16) - June 27, 2003, 08:33:53 AM EDT

Eval () is a kind of closure - (Arkadiy) - (15) - June 27, 2003, 11:28:06 AM EDT

Python supports it... - (admin) - June 27, 2003, 11:30:47 AM EDT

topic is not about me, Mr. Insult - (tablizer) - June 28, 2003, 12:15:21 AM EDT

Re: Eval () is NOT a kind of closure - (JimWeirich) - (12) - June 28, 2003, 03:45:30 PM EDT

You are right. - (Arkadiy) - (11) - July 5, 2003, 01:52:00 PM EDT

All? - (ben_tilly) - (10) - July 7, 2003, 03:24:34 PM EDT

I was thinking about - (Arkadiy) - (9) - July 7, 2003, 05:27:39 PM EDT

Thought you had missed those :-) - (ben_tilly) - (8) - July 7, 2003, 11:28:36 PM EDT

Re: Thought you had missed those :-) - (Arkadiy) - (7) - July 8, 2003, 01:12:10 PM EDT

That mostly works - (ben_tilly) - (6) - July 8, 2003, 02:03:05 PM EDT

Re: That mostly works - (Arkadiy) - (3) - July 8, 2003, 03:40:28 PM EDT

Think we are even then - (ben_tilly) - (2) - July 8, 2003, 03:59:45 PM EDT

A function to produce list from range - (Arkadiy) - (1) - July 9, 2003, 10:08:08 AM EDT

So? - (ben_tilly) - July 9, 2003, 12:51:26 PM EDT

Fake Closures - (JimWeirich) - (1) - July 10, 2003, 11:34:37 AM EDT

Wow - (Arkadiy) - July 10, 2003, 12:35:26 PM EDT

Re: A TOP example - (JimWeirich) - June 28, 2003, 03:55:08 PM EDT

Multivariate Regression Analysis - (ChrisR) - (8) - June 25, 2003, 09:28:31 PM EDT

Why not Eval()? - (tablizer) - (7) - June 26, 2003, 12:55:37 PM EDT

The problem is that the equations are part of the data - (ChrisR) - (5) - June 26, 2003, 02:05:28 PM EDT

I am not following you - (tablizer) - (4) - June 27, 2003, 02:02:25 AM EDT

Do you not understand Regression? - (ChrisR) - (3) - June 27, 2003, 10:08:47 AM EDT

Eval can be used to compute arbitrary function - (Arkadiy) - (2) - June 27, 2003, 11:39:49 AM EDT

Eval is "good enuf" for occassional use. - (tablizer) - (1) - June 27, 2003, 01:02:48 PM EDT

You are not familiar with Ruby then - (ben_tilly) - June 27, 2003, 01:51:44 PM EDT

Of course Eval()? - (JimWeirich) - June 28, 2003, 03:50:32 PM EDT

Re: Bad Marketing - (JimWeirich) - (11) - June 22, 2003, 03:54:51 AM EDT

re: closures - (tablizer) - (10) - June 22, 2003, 02:52:13 PM EDT

re: closures - (JimWeirich) - (9) - June 23, 2003, 03:31:29 AM EDT

bottom bread - (tablizer) - (8) - June 23, 2003, 04:18:57 PM EDT

Still waiting for examples - (JimWeirich) - (7) - June 28, 2003, 03:40:27 PM EDT

misunderstanding? - (tablizer) - (6) - June 28, 2003, 04:58:06 PM EDT

misunderstanding? ... Now I'm Confused - (JimWeirich) - (5) - June 28, 2003, 07:15:40 PM EDT

long blocks - (tablizer) - (4) - June 28, 2003, 08:45:24 PM EDT

Back to the Example ... - (JimWeirich) - (3) - June 29, 2003, 02:14:36 AM EDT

auto-close - (tablizer) - (2) - June 29, 2003, 01:03:49 PM EDT

Exceptions - (JimWeirich) - (1) - June 29, 2003, 03:37:50 PM EDT

Warning: Discussing exceptions with me is a loooong topic -NT - (tablizer) - June 29, 2003, 10:03:31 PM EDT

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