Post #107,069
6/23/03 8:22:03 PM
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When will Linux pass Apple in marketshare?
[link|http://slate.msn.com/id/2084727/|http://slate.msn.com/id/2084727/]
Linux is growing and it might just pass up Apple in marketshare next year.
"I wonder how much of this BS Corporations will continue to shallow before they start looking into alternatives to Microsoft software?" -[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=106839|Orion]
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Post #107,086
6/24/03 12:21:39 AM
6/24/03 2:37:22 AM
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Re: When will Linux pass Apple in marketshare?
orion wrote:
Linux is growing and it might just pass up Apple in marketshare next year.
The Slate article links to a BusinessWeek article by Alex Salkever, which is mostly about obsessing over whether Microsoft Corporation will be continue to release MS-Office applications for MacOS. But he makes passing mention that "Linux should pass Apple in market share for desktop operating systems on computers sold in the coming year. That means from 7% to 10% of all PCs shipped won't bear the Windows icon." He goes on to state (loosely paraphrasing) that MacOS + Linux "market share" will mean that Web site developers will be no longer be able to justify the idiocy of creating Microsoft-specific Web sites.
The overall thrust of the article is mildly interesting. (If you don't mind my saying so, and no offence intended, that interests me more than the factoid you excerpted from it for the question in your subject header.) I would actually maintain that the strategy of making Microsoft-specific Web sites never made economic sense, as it was a classic case of [link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/opti.html|arguing with customers], and indicates Web-admin incompetence more than anything else.
But, getting back to your subject header: Salkever makes the common mistake of applying the mostly-meaningless concept of "market share" to Linux as a metric for (in this case) estimating Web traffic per client platform. Doesn't work for Linux for multiple reasons including (1) lack of any reasonable source for total sales figures, (2) frequent use of dollar totals in place of unit totals (which results in comparing -- no pun intended -- apples and oranges), and (3) almost total lack of correlation between usage and sales in the first place (given the dominance by Linux distros that permit redistribution).
A half-way serious attempt to estimate Web traffic per client platform might look at browser agent string statistics from public Web servers, but this measure has traditionally tended to be skewed by Web proxies, browsers set to masquerade as popular browsers (to defeat moron Web-designers' Javascript-based refusal to admit non-recognised browsers), and the immense amount of company-internal intranet browsing.
Whenever you hear a reporter trying to estimate Linux usage by "market share"... well, I guess it's a noble effort, but doomed by lack of clue about the subject matter.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Edited by rickmoen
June 24, 2003, 02:37:22 AM EDT
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Post #107,168
6/24/03 7:18:04 PM
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re agent-string spoofing..
Yes, I thought it had been obv for the longest time that this too would reveal only GIGO.
It seems to me that only an authentic, *unbiased* (thus pretty costly) survey with enough samples to be credible to a couple percentage points - might even begin to assess the multiple-users of one "download", get past the spoofing by Asking and - oh, you know. Gosh.. if only there were an Infoworld ca 1985 around! What an idea.. info about Info sans the BS.
Crap shoot and intuition then. Does no one care enough to spend a few bucks - just to find out the actual '03 lay of the land? [rhetorical, I guess]
(Given the herd mentality and supposing that 10%? might have long since been passed - surely this would be of more than academic or Rah Rah intere$t. Surely)
Ashton
what a bizarre 'field'
all about 'Information' - and nobody has any you'd trust!
RIP
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Post #107,170
6/24/03 7:20:28 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #107169 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=107169|ICLRPD]
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #107,212
6/25/03 4:21:29 AM
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Re: re agent-string spoofing..
Ashton wrote:
Does no one care enough to spend a few bucks - just to find out the actual '03 lay of the land?
Honestly, do you really care about the answer to that question? Why?
The people who design their Web sites based on browser-usage percentage are morons and incompetents, who are shooting their companies in the foot. There's no excuses for browser-dependent Web sites in 2003. Making sites that display well on all browsers is a long-solved problem.
That justification for the question having been disposed of, I've racked my brain trying to imagine any other reason why I might care how many people use this-or-that browser, and am thus far finding none.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #107,217
6/25/03 7:46:51 AM
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*I* care
I want lots of other people to use lots of other browsers so that the morons and incompetents will be less inclined to do things that give me problems.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #107,303
6/25/03 6:09:25 PM
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Guess I failed to make the distinction -
NOT "which browser do you like today, bunky?" but Which OS? is that browser running on/in/under.
And in a stats-besotted culture, I assert: Yes! it Does Matter if/where a trend is displaying itself - especially as regards any demonstrable progress away from the One Monopoly. For some, such a trend is defined as hope - in various senses. But the hope is ephemeral where there is no believeable measurement to sustain it.
Ashton
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Post #107,677
6/28/03 9:07:09 AM
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Re: Guess I failed to make the distinction -
Ashton wrote:
And in a stats-besotted culture, I assert: Yes! it Does Matter if/where a trend is displaying itself....
I'll just note in passing, without particular objection, that you've changed the question from what I asked to something else entirely. I said: "Do you really care about the answer to that question? Why?"
If you feel like addressing the question actually posed, fine. If not, no big deal.
There seems, in any event, to be a general shortage of clear thinking, and a lot of symbolic assumptions, on the matter. My view; yours for a small fee and disclaimer of reverse-engineering rights.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #107,755
6/29/03 1:05:49 AM
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Oh WTF___I'll take a turn in this game, once
{sheesh} Shall we parse the anatomy of a simple query unto death? WTF IS it with these unscheduled Rorshaks? Even Knoppix doesn't ask me Why I want to start f#%&^* CUPS: it either says Fuck You, Jack or it Starts CUPS. Before I deal with imaginations of, "what it is I Really might like to know", the obligatory blue lines - RM: A half-way serious attempt to estimate Web traffic per client platform might look at browser agent string statistics from public Web servers, but this measure has traditionally tended to be skewed by Web proxies, browsers set to masquerade as popular browsers (to defeat moron Web-designers' Javascript-based refusal to admit non-recognised browsers), and the immense amount of company-internal intranet browsing. To which observation I reply - AB: It seems to me that only an authentic, *unbiased* (thus pretty costly) survey with enough samples to be credible to a couple percentage points - might even begin to assess the multiple-users of one [1]"download", get past the spoofing ... Rick feels impelled to question why I or Anyone might give a shit about Such A Thing - Honestly, do you really care about the answer to that question? Why?
[2]The people who design their Web sites based on browser-usage percentage are morons and incompetents, who are shooting their companies in the foot. There's no excuses for browser-dependent Web sites in 2003. Making sites that display well on all browsers is a long-solved problem.
That justification for the question having been disposed of, I've racked my brain trying to imagine any other reason why I might care how many people use this-or-that browser, and am thus far finding none. I reply to clarify that I don't give a shit about the browser - but the OS. ( Why I might.. care - I have not explicitly listed. Do I Have To?) This is not sufficient - as Rick then Moens: I'll just note in passing, without particular objection, that you've changed the question from what I asked to something else entirely. I said: "Do you really care about the answer to that question? Why?" To which I reply, having trouble deciding why I should: Hey Rick! I SAID that your original presumption was that I gave a shit about the &*%#$ browser-wars - which I admit I had not initially made blindingly clear: until I Thought I Did make it Blindingly Clear. Apparently not. I don't got to answer no steenking questions about a Question I Didn't Ask. Or even about one I did ask - to gratify projections about possible motive for my interest in some factoid - on demand. I still don't know (even from the stats Andy got from The Counter) - whether ""spoofing"" is 100% capable of hiding the actual OS from some willing stats collector -?- Screw the &*$&*$ Browser!But if these data from The Counter suggest anything, it is that a negligible-% of Linux is hitting that Counter -- tracking negligible to 3 significant figures IS indeed pointless. (I also will believe that Andy would pay them no mind - if these numbers were rilly dirty.) Which is sorta what I wanted to learn. Thanks, Andy. As to the effect this revelation shall have on this former-Republic and my plans re the scheduled Impeachment - my fees are also prohibitively high, sometimes involving blood sacrifice. HTH Ashton [1] Admittedly a too-brief one-word ref to - the many possible installations of any *nix distro via merely a single download. So counting those - is ~ meaningless. [2] I suppose they are; there are so many moronic activities extant nowadays - but that comment in its context ass-u-mes... [cf above] PS - there's another phraseology which works better with me: "Y'know I can't see what you could tell from such numbers - care to let on what you think they're good for?"
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Post #107,989
7/1/03 4:37:52 AM
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Re: Oh WTF___I'll take a turn in this game, once
Ashton wrote:
[long, tedious stuff, and]
Rick then Moens:
Oh, tee hee! That's so wonderfully clever! I'll bet nobody has even made jokes by badly mispronouncing anyone else's surname and getting wrong the number of syllables. It's a rare, sophisticated, and mature form of humour -- even more brilliant than your side-splitting reference to "ass-u-mes" -- that I will certainly hope to see more often. Gee thanks, Ashton, you've brightened my day with this amazing scintillation of wit.
If I still gave a fsck, I could ask you, "OK then, twinkie, so do you really care about the answer to that question, even in as much as it might suggest what OSes the various Web browsers are running under? Why?"
But I confess that I no longer care.
(Scott, when are you finally going to get that killfile feature working?)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #107,990
7/1/03 7:08:17 AM
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INTERNET FACE STAB
Grow a sense of humour, fer goodness' sake.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #108,072
7/1/03 2:23:27 PM
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Re: INTERNET FACE STAB
Peter wrote:
Grow a sense of humour, fer goodness' sake.
Ah, this assumes that lame mispronunciations of a correspendent's name based on failing to grasp its syllables count is funny, I imagine. Since (hypothetically) you actually do think that, I have some really terrific news for you: Once you're done with the surname jokes, bathroom humour, and elephant jokes, much, much better stuff beckons.
For the benefit of any other aging grade-schoolers out there, my surname has two syllables; rhymes with Bowen.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #108,104
7/1/03 4:40:04 PM
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Re: INTERNET FACE STAB
Ah, this assumes that lame mispronunciations of a correspendent's name based on failing to grasp its syllables count is funny, I imagine. Since (hypothetically) you actually do think that, I have some really terrific news for you: Once you're done with the surname jokes, bathroom humour, and elephant jokes, much, much better stuff beckons. Such as?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #108,108
7/1/03 5:05:28 PM
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Re: INTERNET FACE STAB
Did ya hear the one about the two oceans???? What did they say to each other when they met???
Nothing...they just waved.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,155
7/2/03 5:49:43 AM
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Re: INTERNET FACE STAB
Such as?
Oh, maybe [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/500-mile-e-mail|debugging SMTP by mileage], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/adders-on-the-ark|Noachian humour], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/air-force-maintenance|Air Force maintenance notes], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/all-colours|background colours], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/allies-enemies-traitors-weapons-hostages|allies/enemies/traitors/weapons/hostages], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/babylon-5-crusade|a parable about B5 Crusade], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/barometer-joke|barometers], [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/blondes-revenge|the blonde's revenge], and [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/cat-bathing-as-a-martial-art|cat bathing]. That takes us to the beginning of the Cs, anyway. More upon request.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #108,156
7/2/03 7:00:58 AM
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Yabut...
...that's other people's sense of humour, not *yours*.
I'm impatient for yourself to stop moening. You should do it in the hnick of time. No need to act all tilly about it.
rick->chain(yank)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #108,178
7/2/03 8:38:34 AM
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Re: Yabut...
Why, s'all in good fun, sir.
-drl
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Post #108,227
7/2/03 2:27:43 PM
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Re: Yabut...
Peter wrote:
...that's other people's sense of humour, not *yours*.
I sincerely hope not: It would be highly schizophrenic for me to have laughed at those driven by someone else's sense of humour. No, as far as I can tell, it was absolutely my sense of humour alone that was making me laugh as I read those.
In any event, psychological freak shows aside, you seemed to have been asking what was quality humour that you might enjoy once you outgrew dribble glasses and fart jokes. So, I provided.
Now, if you would also -- as a change of subject, in effect -- like for some mysterious reason to see something written by me (which reason I hope is something better than zIWETHEY interpersonal soap opera) -- [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/a-man-of-letters.html|I] [link|http://linuxmafia.com/pub/humour/keyboard-failure|can] provide.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #108,239
7/2/03 4:28:30 PM
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How did I guess...
...those jokes would have to do with correctness?
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #108,261
7/2/03 7:15:17 PM
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..why, my Moen\ufffd faucet sounds
a lot like yours! This, ever since its allen set-screw rusted itself into place - because Moen\ufffd was too cheap to pay an extra 3\ufffd for a stainless one:
It goes drip .. drip .. drip into an old cottage cheese tub .. as it waits for me to eventually saw the top off the sucker and find a Non-Moen\ufffd non-drippy replacement.
I gather that Dudgeonmeter Set=High is the default for smarmy hyper-Moen self-congratulatory Tastefulness, but it seems to have the same quality of sound as
My other Moen\ufffd.
Yours for a better digital-grade of aqueous humour,
Ashton
Oh:
[Just set browser: IF 'Ashton' THEN blank post.]
Preserve that sunny disposition for more truly deserving recipients, Solnishka. I am not Worthy of such unremitting Attention.
(That's Russ for Little Sunshine.)
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Post #108,017
7/1/03 10:36:47 AM
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Beginning to think...
...that the serious look in your picture is a permanent condition ;-)
Fer goodness sake...if I got worked up enough for a whole paragraph every time someone made a weak effort at humor based on my name...I'd be the most prolific writer in the history of mankind.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,029
7/1/03 11:47:28 AM
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Oh come on...
Patients, Patient.
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #108,031
7/1/03 11:59:38 AM
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Really, Bill.
Your attitude is patently impatient. One would think you were the denizen of a mental ward... by the way, how are those flowers I sent? The impatiens...? Expensive flowers, incidentally. You wouldn't believe the bill I had to pay... shunt your thanks this way, please.
No point here. Sorry to say your patience hasn't been rewarded.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #108,046
7/1/03 12:31:05 PM
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I always wondered if your dad was a doctor...
And your name is a reminder to himself. Oh, yeah. Bill the Patient.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #108,054
7/1/03 1:10:36 PM
7/1/03 1:11:28 PM
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Actual story
Emergency room prior to wedding (long story)...however...on my chart in very big letters... BILL PATIENT... to which the doctor, on first look, said ..."ok but what's the patient's name."
Also, radio handle...Doctor Bill Patient...didn't quite carry the same schtick as Dr Johnny Fever...but the GM liked the double entendre. (yes...I did radio under my real name) Doctor Bill (obvious): Dr Patient...who has a great relationship to himself...etc....
Post edit:
Thanks guys...we're up to what...Chapter 11 just for today?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Edited by bepatient
July 1, 2003, 01:11:28 PM EDT
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Post #108,059
7/1/03 1:23:53 PM
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Dude, *all* stories are "actual" stories
Just that not all of them are true stories.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #108,073
7/1/03 2:25:00 PM
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Point taken. Head hung in shame.
Patiently waiting (as only I can) for when I can atone.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,076
7/1/03 2:30:57 PM
7/1/03 2:32:56 PM
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*snicker*
You did show a lot of "Patients" in school.
I nearly went went "Batz" trying to get a rise out of you...
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Edited by imric
July 1, 2003, 02:32:56 PM EDT
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Post #108,079
7/1/03 2:40:17 PM
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boo!
You always did have Batz in your belfry.
As long as it is realized that I am the personality trait...and NOT the virtue...we'll be ok.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,081
7/1/03 2:41:44 PM
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Hey Skip
You gonna be at the do?
-drl
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Post #108,082
7/1/03 2:45:45 PM
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He better be!
Or me and his folks are gonna have some words :)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,086
7/1/03 2:51:40 PM
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*whew*
No trip to Cancun and no reunion...
I'm safe!
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #108,134
7/1/03 11:03:20 PM
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I expect all the Child Molesters to attend. ;-)
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Post #108,136
7/1/03 11:21:21 PM
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stylewhack n3jja
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,139
7/1/03 11:52:05 PM
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I'll be there!
Maybe this wasn't the right one to respond to with that announcement after all.
Geez, Thanx...
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #108,144
7/2/03 12:11:41 AM
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Probably true
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #108,229
7/2/03 2:45:25 PM
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Speaking of which, wanna bring that 16-YO daughter?
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #108,238
7/2/03 4:14:53 PM
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Can't...
She is @ CAMP 'til Saturday, then she is going to the "Lake" with her Best Friend Family.
The friend is a guy, but a guy that has no interest in Girls... iffn you get the meaning!
| [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg] - IT Grand-Master for Anti-President | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] |
THEY ARE WATCHING YOU. The time has come for you to take the last step. You must love THEM. It is not enough to obey THEM. You must love THEM. PEACE BEGETS WAR, SLAVERY IS FREEDOM, STRENGTH IN IGNORANCE.
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Post #108,248
7/2/03 6:43:27 PM
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Hah!
Suckered you into the scam too, eh?
{cackle} sensitive types == them what don't sound all idiot-like when around pheromones.. ain't necessarily 'what' Evull Parent-types tend to Suppose.
(Of course too - I'm way outta-date on the latest ploys to confound parents - so wtf..)
:-\ufffd
Ashton
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Post #108,084
7/1/03 2:48:06 PM
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Most definately!
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #108,152
7/2/03 1:37:13 AM
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Gosh - that makes it even sim-pl-er
[link|http://www.gregfolkert.net/pics/satire/tn/HandOfGod2.jpg.html|\ufffd]
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Post #108,177
7/2/03 8:38:32 AM
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I think you've been Ashtoned...
Certainly the one excerpt you fished out is highly characteristic of him.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #108,228
7/2/03 2:29:54 PM
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Re: I think you've been Ashtoned...
Wade wrote:
I think you've been Ashtoned...
Oh dear. I sincerely hope antibiotics will cure that.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #107,700
6/28/03 2:08:23 PM
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You didn't really want to know . .
. . but here are global stats for Operating Systems and Browsers from [link|http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/stats01.html|"The Counter"] for January and April of 2003 (May isn't comparable because of changes in collection method).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #107,757
6/29/03 1:13:08 AM
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Gracias - al punte.
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