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Post #101,701
by deSitter
Picture of deSitter
5/13/03 4:40:56 PM
Reply
New Still open to discussion
..but your point is well-taken.

We really don't know if causality is wrong. Even QFT has a built-in form of causality, in the form of commutators of fields at spacelike separation.
-drl
Post #101,745
by Ashton
5/13/03 8:12:42 PM
Reply
New Physicswise
I've tended to the comparison with (whatever we think we know about) the 'Arrow of Time'. It seems as reasonable as it is intuitive [Yeah.. I know..] that causality is at least as useful an idea as are Newton's laws.. for mere astrophysical navigation, nearby.

But we are speaking here of the axiomatic closed-System, aren't we? Physics must deal with at least some umm encapsulation.. into a field of references. I doubt that we disagree at this level -- except that you know much more about the entire topic than I (!) (Yes, I think I sorta grokked some of your what-ifs a while back.. re "conservation of energy" -- and what we might suppose next, if we supended that a little bit.)

Where I find causality to interfere with proper reasoning (and esp. Reasoning) - is when we attempt to apply it to human events, all of which actually take place within the individual or collective wetware. There is no possibility of circumscribing That 'field of reference'. IMhO. Maybe above is a prime example: "the 'cause' of criminal mentation" / or criminally inhuman mentation? say. A most unsatisfying pursuit.



Ashton
     Cox & Forkum: UN rotten - (marlowe) - (17) - May 1, 2003, 08:42:09 AM EDT
         {Yawn} Impeach Earl Warren! / US out of UN! / {awk} {awk} -NT - (Ashton) - May 2, 2003, 12:24:08 AM EDT
         Sames ta you - (tangaroa) - (15) - May 6, 2003, 02:02:54 AM EDT
             [cackle]____tit for twit -NT - (Ashton) - May 7, 2003, 04:52:17 AM EDT
             Ah, the trusty old tu quoque slander. - (marlowe) - (13) - May 11, 2003, 08:43:12 AM EDT
                 You keep repeating that... - (inthane-chan) - May 11, 2003, 01:24:57 PM EDT
                 "Truth is on my side" - an exact equivalent of, - (Ashton) - May 11, 2003, 07:55:50 PM EDT
                 It ain't slander if it's true - (tangaroa) - (10) - May 11, 2003, 10:27:43 PM EDT
                     Only on your planet. - (marlowe) - (9) - May 12, 2003, 08:38:57 PM EDT
                         Mobs + torches + marlowe - Dante's 11th Level. - (Ashton) - May 12, 2003, 10:15:04 PM EDT
                         Is m's bipolar cycle on the ->grandeur arc? - (rcareaga) - (5) - May 12, 2003, 11:39:11 PM EDT
                             Re: Is m's bipolar cycle on the ->grandeur arc? - (deSitter) - May 12, 2003, 11:49:42 PM EDT
                             AS best as I can determine - (dmarker) - (3) - May 13, 2003, 12:22:39 AM EDT
                                 'Causality' appears to be among our larger misperceptions - (Ashton) - (2) - May 13, 2003, 04:47:53 AM EDT
                                     Still open to discussion - (deSitter) - (1) - May 13, 2003, 04:40:56 PM EDT
                                         Physicswise - (Ashton) - May 13, 2003, 08:12:42 PM EDT
                         What fucking delusion is this you're living under, exactly?? - (CRConrad) - May 31, 2003, 06:43:40 PM EDT
                         A word from your sponsor: - (a6l6e6x) - May 18, 2003, 12:39:25 AM EDT

Ben "I make grown men want to slit their wrists" Tilly.
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