Firstly I appreciate that you have responded & your POV is an acceptable one as a starting point ...

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Is there a single period in known Chinese history that wasn't one or more of the following:

* Fractured into multiple opposing regimes
* Controlled by a brutal dictator or emperor
* Under an oppressive occupation force
* Controlled by a brutal totalitarian concept such as legalism or communism
* Fraught with civil wars or continual rebellions
* Majority of people living in poverty while those in power had lavish cities and palaces
* Mass executions commonplace
* Lasted more than 150 years before decaying into corruption or being invaded
<<

Is there a single period in known Chinese history that wasn't one or more of the following: What do you mean by period ??? - is 200 years of peace & properity a 'period' in your definition. Is multiple 100 year periods good enough ???

Fractured into multiple opposing regimes ??? When ???
Controlled by a brutal dictator or emperor ??? Brutal, in what context ??? (all rulers in almost all civilizations between 1000bc to 1700ad 'controlled' their subjects. This statement really means nothing).
Controlled by a brutal totalitarian concept (Do you mean Mao ???, if not then which ruler ??? and brutality in what context ???)
Majority of people living in poverty Sorry but this is pure crap unless you mean 19th century China as it was transitioning from feudal, to occupied to Communism). If so that is one tiny period in a great & illustrious history spanning 2 millenia !!!

A SUMMARY OF CHINA'S HISTORY
(sse additional notes at bottom)

Re for brutal,in all civilizations of the same eras and earlier, the conquerers all could be called brutal at the time they were conquering, so this statement seems pointless unless you are trying to compare ancient civilizations with modern ones ???, if so why & what point are you trying to make ???.

So, comparing past history with modern history: I am not sure what you are comparing China to - today or 1000 years ago or 2000 etc:.

But, as in any 3000 year old country/region there were periods when power shifted and the focus went from military adjustment to periods of artistic progress & enlightenment. China is recognised as one of the oldest & longest surviving stable 'countries/civilizations' with comparatively stable borders that have only shifted modestly in the past 1800 years.


First Chinese Dynasty:
QIN Dynasty (pron chin): Emperor Qin's dynasty was the acknowledged earliest (220 BC). Emperor Qin took China from a group of neibouring & often warring states (kingdoms), into a greater empire (multiple kings --> one Emperor). Qin conquered the other immediate states to found what is essentially 'China'. Qin was believed to be the Emperor who created the terracotta army found in Xian & massive in scale, for his tomb. He ruled at a time when iron was being explored and was in plentiful supply & this gave him a military edge. Yes he was ruthless (as each of the founders of a new dynasty was at its commencement), His reign was tough but the country was unified and trade & commerce grew. After his death this empire fell apart to be followed by a period of turbulence until the next power clique could cement power & these were the Han Chinese.

Modern China is 90% Han peoples although they talk of 55 minorities. The start of the Han period is important in terms of the makeup of modern China. The Han perfected the administrative model for China that most subsequent dynasties adopted. This is not unlike what happened in many other parts of the world & other civilisations. (i.e. Alfred the Great (England) in the 10th century, began an administrative model that was the basis for modern England. The next major improvement there were introduced by the Normans in the 11th century & improved little until the 17th century).

At the time of the Han dynasty, china was already 60 million people - a massive population & one that could only progress when there was some stability. The Han dynasty provided over 200 years of relative peace to the population.

In about the 4th century, the Han dynasty began to decline & the country split into 3 kingdoms. The Han Chinese had previously only occuipied down to the middle of modern China but by the 4th century had moved much further south & by sheer numbers, absorbed the tribes & peoples in the region that is now between Guilin (pron: gweylin) and SE Asia (Vietnam & Thailand & Burma). Part of the reason for the shift south was that during this same period Mongol & Turkic peoples were pushing down from the north creating friction at the intersection.

6th to 7th Centuries:
SUI Dynasty (pron Soo-a-e): Ruled China from the north & composed of mixed Han &

7th to 10th Century
TANG Dynasty: This is a period of considerable stability and when great advances & discoveries were made. It was brought down by a rebellion that then led to the next dynasty but the change to the new rulers occured over about 100 years as the Tang's Empire crumbled.

12th to 13th Centuries:
SONG Dynasty (pron soong): Another great dynasty that ushered in further stability & greatness to China. The population had almost double since the Qin dynasty and the arts again flourished. Agricultural advances meant better crops, more food, more trade. Printing press was invented. This dynasty became the way of life that all subsequent dynastys followed. The Mandarin class of scholars became the ruling elite who were the backbone of Chines administration and power. The downside of their stability was that Norther China was again taken over by invaders (Turkic & Mongol) & the dynasty moved their capital further south. This was another period of Han southerly migration.

12th to 14th Centuries:
YUAN Dynasty (pron Yoo-ahn): This was the 1st dynasty to be headed by the mongol invaders. During this period. China still flourished and it was when Marco Polo arrived and when Jesuit priests visted (some of whom stayed to work for the Emperor which led to some great advances in science and arts.
Kubali Khan was a Yuan Emperor.

14th to 17th Centuries:
MING Dynasty: (Ming the merciless <grin>): Another period of great advances but also the period that laid the foundation for later exploitation by the industrialized west.
In the Ming period. China built a great fleet of ships to explore the world. These were massive ships that were 450ft long & 150ft abeam (about as big as a small aircraft carrier). Three great ships of these dimensions & 100s (approx 3-400) smaller vessels were built & the now famous admiral Cheng He (Zheng He) was sent by the emperor to explore.

Admiral Cheung brought back plants & animals from SE Asia, India & Arabia. Some believed that one sub fleet reached USA & went inland as far as Pensylvania.

The Ming moved the capitol from Nanjing (Nanking) back to Beijing (Peking). And reinforced & extended the Great Wall. A Ming Emperor also accepted trade with the Portugese & offered them a swampy peninsular now called Macau (Macao).

But to their discredit. The Ming Mandarins of the 15th century, after Cheung He had sailed the oceans for 30 years in his massive fleet (impressive even by today's navies standards), mothballed the fleet, poo-poo'ed Cheung He's discoveries & decided to close China to all but regular trade partners (exeption being the Portugese). This isolation (later repeated by the Japanese in 18th century) was the begining of modern China's troubles as it began the isolation from western advances & industrialization & that led to the collapse of China in the next & last dynastic period (Qing)

17th to 20th centuries:
QING or MANCHU Dynasty (pron Ching): These were basically mongol rulers & while they kept China's wealth and stbility going for about 150 years, the country became stagnant & the west by way of Germany US UK & France, invaded & forced the arrogant Qing Emperor to grant massive concessions & open China up (to blatant exploitation by way of the opium trade). China then feall to warlordism & Japanese invasion in the 1930s. Japan planned to annex a large part of Nortern China and had already done so with Korea.

NOTES

The Chinese people did pretty well for themselves and only went through bad timnes during power shifts brough on by invasions from the north or when one Dynasty was overthrown but almost in every case, stability returned and allowed China to grow into an extraordinary great empire where the people were generally well fed apart from those poor sods who were coopted to build & extend the great wall (paid & fed all the same), or who had to serve in armies in the deserted north, protecting the Silk road from bandits & invaders.

Your awareness of China's history betrays a very 20th century perspective fed perhaps by anti-communism (red peril, Korean war memories) & possibly a bit of xenophobia. Apart from the tumultuous years from the last Ming Emperor through to Mao Tse Dong (who rightly stamped out the Mandarin class that got China in its mess), China was one of the worlds great civilizations & is considered to be about to cahieve a new greatness as it adapts to a modern politicalsystem & infrastructure. By end of 2003 they expet to have their 1st men in space orbit.

Thanks

Doug Marker




















In brief China remained much the same except for two great upheavals, both initiated by Nothern tribes (

We could both argue that there has *never* been a period in any great empire's history where there weren't one of your conditions !!!.

Roman
Byzantine
Persian
Austro-Hungarian
British
Russian
USSR
German
American

You have spread your case so ridiculously broad as to make it meaningless - as an illustration. Tell me when US has had any 100-150 years without one of your pointless conditions being met.

--Please start with the treatment of native Americans !!!. Then enlighten us re:

--The war on Spain started by blaming them for a coal bunker explosion on the Battleship Maine in Havana Harbour

--The Vietnam mess

--Ollie North's Nicaraguan adventures

--etc: ad infinitum

Cheers

Doug Marker