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New Nader in denial
Ralph Nader said his 2000 presidential candidacy -- which some say siphoned off votes that could have meant a Democratic victory -- is not to blame for President Bush or his war....In fact, people could just as easily blame David McReynolds, the Socialist Party candidate in 2000, for giving the key state of Florida to Bush, he noted. McReynolds polled 622 votes in the state, and Democratic Vice President Al Gore lost by 537 votes. Nader, who ran as the Green Party candidate, got 97,488 votes. "When people ask me this, I say, 'What would you have me do?' Nader said. "Everybody has a right to run for office."

[link|http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/5462385.htm|http://www.bayarea.c.../iraq/5462385.htm]

Be still, my heart...

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Wow, hadn't thought of that
We have Nader to thank.

'Course, we have Perot to thank for Clinton.
-drl
New Yah...sure...
...I'll go along with blaming Nader ;-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Respectfully disagree.
I was as pissed off at Nader as anyone. But, given some distance I realize that Nader wasn't the problem. Gore himself wasn't the problem, except for one thing: political parties have become waaaayyyyyy too important. I understand that political parties became necessary in response to Jackson losing the first time - after clearly having won the election. They used to be a good thing. Now, however, the parties have become the enemy of the people. Money is and always has been King in Murica. Without established parties (which are more like corporations than anything else) the true rulers of Murica (read multi-national corp board of directors) could not so easily corrupt our system and force us to bend to their will. I dunno if Ralph understands that or not, but I suspect he understands it better than most.

Perhaps the best example of how damaging our political parties have become to us was the Jerry Brown campaign. Even though he won a significant number of primaries, the Party(tm) did not want him to speak during prime time on teevee (where most Muricans form their voting decisions). Coverage of his campaign - even on the allegedly left-biased NPR - was disgraceful.

During Jackson's time we could not have a democracy without strong political parties. Today, we cannot have a democracy with strong political parties.
bcnu,
Mikem

Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
New Re: Respectfully disagree.
It's tempting to say "a pox on both your houses," but I learned long ago (when I was half Nader's present age) that to spurn the lesser of two evils is to engorge the greater, and this is, disastrously, what his lunatic and self-indulgent 2000 campaign served to do. And if our Ralph, serene in his deluded messianic purpose, runs again next year your take will be...?

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Reminds me of the Duma.
Can the current system be reformed from within? I think that's the base question. Answer "No" and one might/must support another Nader run. Answer "Yes" and Nader is to be condemned.

It is an important question and one I have not given enough thought to. However, recent events (USSC appointment, Gestapo OHS implementation, suspension of the Bill of Rigths, etc.) are pushing me ever closer to answer the above question "No". That said, I have no illusions about Nader's delusions of grandeur. My point is simply that through his actions he may be underscoring an argument he, himself, hasn't even thought about.
bcnu,
Mikem

Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
New Discouraging LRPD -____ RESISTANCE IS USELESS!
As to reform.. during and since Vietnam, it has been repeatedly demonstrated (often by 'decoy' sign-up tables at malls, and the like) that many.. most? Muricans are ignorant of even the Bill of Rights (or where that might be found), let alone the rest of the basic Documents.

Further, when faced with verbatim excerpts - no recognition is kindled and often the same old cant from my Gramma's mindset manifests - sounds Commie to me..

To whatever extent the above would fare in a genuine plebiscite: Muricans cannot be troubled to govern themselves -- though the same offending group of ignoramuses will Rush to support our imposing some cockamamie idea of Muricanism -- on anyone else out there, weak enough to be prey to Corp aims. All it needs is juvenile spin. We are a nation of Babbitts, apparently - uqick to anger / misunderstand; even quicker to close (rather infrequently-used) minds. And sanctimony is our largest attitudinal export.

Reform? *THAT* requires interest, basic knowledge, tenacity and Purpose, not to mention eptness about human foibles.. enroute. (And a facility for puncturing Red Herrings sure to be floated in opposition) - In a word or two, it demands basic competence in ethics and civics.

See where I'm going re the chances ?


Ashton
New Correct
I hate agreeing with a real liberal but it can't be avoided here.

If you actually have some sense of what is good for the people you will fall on your sword. Nader's only defense would be that he didn't think a Bush admin would be significantly worse than a Gore one.
-drl
Expand Edited by deSitter March 23, 2003, 06:20:35 PM EST
New I don't think so.
I think Nader goofed. I think he thought he could get some concessions out of the Democrats (who were more likely to listen to him) by running - like maybe get to be the new Secretary of Labor or something. I really don't think he thought he could tip the scales of the election. If he did, I don't think he would have run because I think he knew what this would be like - as many of us did.
bcnu,
Mikem

Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
New Re: I don't think so.
I really don't think he thought he could tip the scales of the election

--which brings us back to Topic A, doesn't it? Nader in denial.

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New Hard to claim Nader responsible, imo.
When so damned few of us turned out to vote, n'est pas?

[Edit: sp in subject - gaahhh!]
bcnu,
Mikem

Osama bin Laden's brother could fly in US airspace 9/15/01, but I had to wait for FBI and CIA background checks, 'nuff said?
Expand Edited by mmoffitt March 23, 2003, 09:03:32 PM EST
New Gore -- A Moron?
All Gore had to do to win the election was send Bill Clinton to campaign heavily in New Hampshire in the final days
win NH win regardless of FL

All Gore had to do to win was concentrate the last few days in TN
win TN....


A


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New All Gore had to do...
...was bring up Bush's vaunted "military service."

Think the people of the U.S. would have voted for a deserter?
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring.
New All gore had to do was pick an acceptable VP that was the
reason I didnt vote for him.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

To a lot of people in California hunting anything but the wild tofualope was equivelent to sacarificing babies to satan. S.M. Stirling
New What, you have a problem with Joe L's faith / race, BOx...?
;-)


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New faith and race is fine, his politics suxed donkey dicks
same reason I wouldnt vote sir jesse the jackson dog catcher but would likely vote for Mis Lee from texas.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
     Nader in denial - (rcareaga) - (15)
         Wow, hadn't thought of that - (deSitter) - (1)
             Yah...sure... - (bepatient)
         Respectfully disagree. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
             Re: Respectfully disagree. - (rcareaga) - (6)
                 Reminds me of the Duma. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                     Discouraging LRPD -____ RESISTANCE IS USELESS! - (Ashton)
                 Correct - (deSitter) - (3)
                     I don't think so. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                         Re: I don't think so. - (rcareaga) - (1)
                             Hard to claim Nader responsible, imo. - (mmoffitt)
         Gore -- A Moron? - (andread) - (4)
             All Gore had to do... - (inthane-chan)
             All gore had to do was pick an acceptable VP that was the - (boxley) - (2)
                 What, you have a problem with Joe L's faith / race, BOx...? - (CRConrad) - (1)
                     faith and race is fine, his politics suxed donkey dicks - (boxley)

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