Had to reread my posts.

Post #8,687 by mmoffitt 9/12/01 4:50:45 PM Reply	Had to reread my posts. >>The idea, its fine. Its the attitude that "This is so simple, they could just DO it. I sure as hell didn't mean to imply it was easy. Hell, NOTHING is easy to change on ANY airplane. The Weight and Balance calculations alone confuse me :-) [not really, just kidding].
Post #8,695 by marlowe 9/12/01 5:10:29 PM Reply	Nobody's saying it's easy. Addison likes to put words in our mouths. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Post #8,698 by addison 9/12/01 5:20:41 PM Reply	You did. Words in your mouth? Hell, if I did that it would IMPROVE the intelligence of what you're saying. Of course, I suppose it easier to just insult me than admit that your "solutions" are exactly what I called them as - kneejerk reactions. (Something to think about: 747 has 3-4 flight crew. some flights have 2 of them. With 1 set of bunks so they can sleep. Now figure how to rejigger the plane to put that behind your armor. After all, its solutions you're offering, right?) Its far far far harder than you're saying. Because what you're saying is exactly "Don't have planes, then they can't crash". So are you driving a car? What kind, who made what tradeoffs with it? What did they tradeoff with your house? Your office? C'mon, you're in for a penny, in for a pound, lets hear your expertise on all these risks, and how to obliviate them.. (The WTC was designed to survive a 707 crash, in theory. Common sense would have said they should have scaled up to planes that didn't exist then) And while we're at it, let's sue the ass of whoever it was didn't start the ball rolling on this seven to ten years ago. Lots of solutions Give the cockpit crew their own john in there. Have the backup crew sit in that section too. Just enlarge it a bit. As for going back and checking on things, let's just do without. Or settle for closed-circuit cameras. It's a tradeoff, and our priorities need to be adjusted now. Weight considerations? Now there's a false economy. Sure sounds like you're calling them all idiots, and that its sure easy, to me. Addison
Post #8,700 by Another Scott 9/12/01 5:33:28 PM Reply	The WTC survived the crashes just fine. They didn't survive the fires. Nothing could. Listen to the [link\|http://www.pbs.org/newshour/newshour_index.html\|Real Audio] of the NewsHour segment last night entitled "Structural Questions". (I assume they'll have transcripts soon.) The building was very strong and survived the impact just fine. The problem was the jet fuel fire which couldn't be put out in time. The steel softened and the upper stories collapsed, ram-rodding the rest of the building into the ground. If the steel hadn't softened, it would still be standing. There are coatings they can put on steel to resist fires, and they're standard. But they're designed to resist a 3 hour office fire (paper, carpet, etc.), not a jet fuel fire. Nothing can stand up to that (at least nothing practical - you can't wrap every beam in 3 feet of asbestos or something...). It wasn't the impact which did in the towers, it was the fire. Cheers, Scott.
Post #8,717 by addison 9/12/01 6:31:20 PM Reply	Doesn't change my point.... That is, according to marlowe, you have to account for every possibility. Now that we know you can fly an airliner into a building, surely you're negligent if you don't armor it and prepare so that it won't collapse. Which is of course, absurd. Right now, they're talking about banning knifes - even in resturants - in the airport, and on the plane. (hope you like grilled cheese when you fly, and dont' insist on the crust being cut off). Which is starting to miss the forest for the trees, again. You're absolutely right, at least I don't know that you're wrong. The designers never really planned for THIS contingency - and at some point you do have to say "well, we can't cover that". Addison
Post #8,745 by wharris2 9/12/01 9:24:49 PM Reply	Re: The WTC survived the crashes just fine. If it collapsed, it didn't "survive the crashes just fine". The designers just didn't take into account thousands (tens or hundreds?) of gallons of jet fuel poured into the structure. Unexpected side effects. As a programmer, I know all about that. This is a majorly ouch unexpected side effect. That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
Post #8,727 by marlowe 9/12/01 6:56:12 PM Reply	All right. Maybe not so much words in my mouth as... appallingly bad reading comprehension on your part. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Post #8,732 by addison 9/12/01 7:38:20 PM Reply	Not as bad as Your apalling condecention towards all those people you want to go sue. Now would you bother explaining about you car, and your house? Or if you're going to run, stop insulting me. Addison

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