Gong!

Post #8,538 by gdaustin 9/12/01 10:06:56 AM Reply	Gong! Try again. It was thought of. In fact, in the days of early aviation many pilots and first officers DID carry guns. Pilots are so busy flying airplanes that a gun onboard the place (in the cockpit, in a holster, in a compartment in front of the pilot) just becomes an opportunity for someone with a few too many drinks, or a tree hugger, or someone with a fundamentalist bent to just stroll up to the cockpit and take the gun and then use it. You actually make the job easier for the terrorist. Think of what happened with all the armory on the movie Air Force One and you get the idea. I worked in the airline industry for 11 years for American. Every time a plane was hijacked, even in Russia, the topic came up of lax American security. During the Gulf War, it was very much on our minds. Israel has the best airport security in the world. We should copy Israel's security model if we want the right kind of airport security. However, it is not "fast" or "convenient". Armed members of Israels elite security force (soldiers) fly on many airplanes. ( I can't remember if they are uniformed or plain clothes.) All bags are hand checked. Anything even resembling a knife or gun is confiscated (and you are very much questioned and harassed). Soldiers with Uzi's guard every security checkpoint. Bomb sniffing dogs, equipment, etc. abound. Now I have not visited Israel, but am told this by a Jewish friend who travels there about 1 time per year. If you're flying in/out of Israel, plan to be at the airport 4 hours before departure. Security is serious business. However, we Americans have become accostomed to our "convenience" and probably won't tolerate this kind of security. However, since Entebbe, I don't believe that Israel has ever had a single hijacking. So how do you want it? Do you want planes destroying the infrastructure of our country or will you be willing to tolerate armed security, hassles, and a 4 hour wait next time you visit the airport? Planes should not fly until we have similar procedures in place at every major airport. Glen Austin
Post #8,547 by Simon_Jester 9/12/01 10:24:49 AM Reply	I agree with your assessment... My dad travelled to Israel on business a number of years ago. Israel is the best. I would suspect that there won't be ANY more carry on luggage anymore as one of the precautions. Sidenote: this attack did NOT require passenger planes, and cargo planes have had loose security traditionally. (I'm actually surprised that it didn't use cargo planes).
Post #8,552 by drewk 9/12/01 10:40:42 AM Reply	Odd random thought I would suspect that there won't be ANY more carry on luggage anymore as one of the precautions. Will laptop manufacturers no longer brag about the ability of their latest creation to operate on a coast-to-coast flight on one charge? This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Post #8,563 by gdaustin 9/12/01 11:02:11 AM Reply	Luggage Laptops Hmm.... If I were Dell, Compaq, HP, etc., I would think about a commercial where a wild monkey throws my laptop around (like the Samsonite luggage guy). Then the monkey (or a guy in a suit) sits down, opens the lid, turns on the power and WALAA! it works. BTW, this is going to drive some significant redesign in laptops. Ruggadized laptops will be the order of the day. Drop from 10 meters and they still work! Glen Austin
Post #8,555 by Steven A S 9/12/01 10:47:18 AM Reply	Passenger planes gave them the bonus (or consolation if they failed otherwise) of being able to kill that many more "Infadels". Also since the purpose of terrorrism is to cause terror, it was more effective. This attack makes people afraid to fly instead of just being concerned about the occasional plane falling on your place of work (which some people may have had dark fantasies about anyway - don't get any ideas Norm :) ) ~~~)-Steven----
Post #8,556 by cwbrenn 9/12/01 10:47:41 AM Reply	You do realize... ... that this is going to be the mantra for any proposal to restrict any kind of liberty in the US? "So how do you want it? Do you want planes destroying the infrastructure of our country or will you be willing to tolerate armed security, hassles, and a 4 hour wait next time you visit the airport?" Replace it with speech, free association, privacy, etc. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but it's scary. "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
Post #8,561 by addison 9/12/01 10:55:56 AM Reply	I don't realize that. I've heard some people - that I would not have expected it (I'd have expected them to have said what you are saying) - that this is an attack on our way of life, and It Must Not Be Allowed To Change Anything. I find this heartening. Even though, in reality, the regularion by insurance/lawyers will cause some changes - the public is actually saying "We ain't giving up our liberties cause of some crazies, we just need to KILL THEM". Barbaric, but I like it. Right now attempts to remove liberty would be faced with overwhelming opposition. Expect to see the cameras disappearing off city streets. Addison
Post #8,569 by gdaustin 9/12/01 11:16:16 AM Reply	YOU DO REALIZE... That we're not safe and that our safety is only an illusion and the security an illusion also. Even as "secure" as Israel is, a dedicated team of terrorists could storm a security checkpoint, storm a plane, kill the security officer and hijack a plane and fly it into a building in Tel Aviv. (provided they weren't shot down by an Israeli fighter plan first). And an Islamic fundamentalist could rent a piper cub this afternoon and fly it into the TransAmerica tower in SFO. Safety is an illusion. We can do much more to help the situation, but in the end, we're left to rely on God's Will for our lives. We do decide everyday, how much freedom we're willing to give up for some security checks. In air travel, I'm willing to give up a little more freedom for a lot more safety checks. Glen Austin
Post #8,572 by addison 9/12/01 11:20:09 AM Reply	Re: YOU DO REALIZE... but in the end, we're left to rely on God's Will for our lives. You can put your faith in god. I'd far prefer to take Colt and H&K, thank you verra much. No smiley, I'm very serious about that. Addison
Post #8,575 by boxley 9/12/01 11:30:08 AM Reply	actually both is better than one why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them? Randy Wayne White
Post #8,584 by cwbrenn 9/12/01 11:49:05 AM Reply	Praise the Lord and Pass the Powder is a very Baptist understanding of life. :) "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
Post #8,585 by cwbrenn 9/12/01 11:50:04 AM Reply	YES I REALIZE THAT, THANKS FOR SHOUTING BECAUSE I WAS REALLY AFRAID I WASN'T GOING TO GET YOUR POINT THE FIRST TIME. MAYBE YOU COULD REPEAT IT A FEW MORE TIMES JUST IN CASE I MISSED IT NOW. "We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
Post #8,712 by bconnors 9/12/01 6:11:14 PM Reply	Something like that has happened once before You mention about a terrorist "renting a Piper Cub" and crashing it into a target. Something like that happened in Charleston, SC some years ago. One of the men at the Navy base went through a emotional break-up with his girlfriend and it affected him tremendously. He was also a licensed pilot. So he rented a single engine plane, took it up several thousand feet, then did a full throttle swan dive into one of the giant above ground fuel tanks on the base. Fortunately, the only fatality was him. Charleston's mayor demanded that the Navy prevent this from ever occuring again. The Navy responded by creating some type of air defense team for the base. Several years ago this was the only Navy base in the country that had its "own air force". I heard about this from my brother-in-law when I visited him several years ago when he was stationed there. I'm going to hit Google to see if I can track this down. BConnors "Prepare for metamorphosis. Ready, Kafka?"
Post #8,718 by Ashton 9/12/01 6:35:49 PM Reply	One answer: no carry-on; fly nude (G-strings). OK - everyone gets a disposable paper-material gown. Small bag for the er hygienic necessities, passport, Rx etc. allowed; inspected. Certain medical exceptions for the doubtless unanticipated consequences. Turn up the cabin heat. Clothing change-stations replace the current manual inspection stations. ALL material loaded aboard plane receives Israeli-type techno-inspection) Bonus - lots of frivolous (?) burning of jet fuel saved.. some habits altered - but no one is prevented from normal access and choices. (There are thousands of opions to status quo; present system is result of MBA choices and inertia. The latter altered yesterday via F=M (dv/dt)) Ashton
Post #8,835 by Steven A S 9/13/01 9:43:34 AM Reply	Re: One answer: no carry-on; fly nude (G-strings). Have you seen some of the people that fly these days? I wouldn't want to be subjected to that view myself! Even then there are places to hide things. I wouldn't want the job of checking some of those (although I'm sure there are exceptions) ~~~)-Steven----
Post #8,971 by Ashton 9/13/01 8:01:14 PM Reply	Understood: free night-shades supplied on request_____:-\ufffd

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