Hit `em so they can't get up.

Post #8,337 by marlowe 9/11/01 2:15:57 PM Reply	Hit `em so they can't get up. Then whether they respect us or not becomes a moot point. If it's Bin Laden, we have to kill him, and the top echelon of his organization. If it's a country, we have to end its existence as a sovereign political entity. Revive colonialism if need be. And we need to to it damn quick, while this recent attack in fresh in the world's collective mind. Otherwise, we'll look like the bully. It's stupid, but that's the way people think. The question is, how? The other question is, who? Ans the most troubling question is, just how much better than they are we, if we resort to such violence? What we really need to do is is obliterate the culture, the whole way of looking at the world, that first motivates and then rationalizes their violence against us. Make sure the kids don't grow up to be like their parents. Teach the adults shame, if at all possible. They won't like it, but to hell with what they like. I don't think we have to destroy Islam per se, but some sects will have to go. And it's not just the religious system. That's a manifestation of a deeper dysfunction. Just as Nazism sprang from Hegel and Nietzsche, the violent aspects of Islam come from an exaggerated sense of grievance and emotional underdevelopment, that are part of a tradition of dysfunction thousands of years old. The Middle Eastern mindset has got to go. And to hell with multiculturalism. All ways of looking at the world are not created equal. Sometimes people are just wrong. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Post #8,341 by bluke 9/11/01 2:40:57 PM Reply	You guys are unbelievable Imagine if the situation were reversed and Israel was attacked as in the past. We would be hearing all kinds of voices about restraint, etc. Israel has been saying this for years, but no the US has insisted don't respond, don't cause an escalation etc.
Post #8,441 by static 9/11/01 7:23:54 PM Reply	It's amazing, isn't it? However, I agree that Isreal should declare on Palestine; and the US should declare war on these terrorists. I would expect Australia to do the same if it happened to us. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #8,343 by Andrew Grygus 9/11/01 2:45:09 PM Reply	Declaration of War The United States should declare a State of War - enemy to be appointed later. All Islamic countries should be told to sign on one side or the other - NO NEUTRALS. Any that don't sign with us within 5 days automatically become free fire zones, to be dealt with by any means we see fit, including nuclear weapons. There is no way the United States can protect itself from enemies of this kind. Only the countries of origin stand a chance of doing that. Without their cooperation the only choice we have is to eliminate the enemies by any means available. The alternative is to have events like this on a weekly basis. The enemy has defined itself as a culture, and has declared war on us. Eliminating that culture is the only choice we have. Yes, many innocents will be killed - better theirs than ours. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #8,347 by bluke 9/11/01 2:51:01 PM Reply	You are advocating the commission of war crimes Are you really willing to kill hundres of thousands or even millions of innocent civilians? There is no doubt that the use of nuclear weapons on any popultaed area is a war crime by any definition. What gives you the right to kill so many innocent civilians?
Post #8,356 by Andrew Grygus 9/11/01 3:07:38 PM Reply	Mass destruction should be avoided . . . . wherever possible, but it should be on the table. When you have terrorists who hide themselves within the innocent, it is the responsibility of the innocent to get them out of there - or suffer the consequences. Here we see the "innocents" deliberately and willingly colaborating with the terrorists and celebrating their actions. Yes, innocents will be killed. Better theirs than ours, or are you volunteering? I don't think any of those in New York or Washington volunteered, or those that were on the airplanes volunteered. What's to keep this from becoming a weekly event, when religeous fanatics are assured of paradise by engaging in these actions there will be no shortage of "martyrs". How many of our innocents do you propose we sacrifice? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #8,366 by bluke 9/11/01 3:21:46 PM Reply	The same number of innocents... that the US tells Israel to sacrifice to suicide bombing etc.
Post #8,376 by drewk 9/11/01 3:33:09 PM Reply	Good logic For the sake of argument, I'll grant your premise that U.S. foreign policy has amounted to telling Israel to sacrifice people to suicide bombers. Are you now concluding that the U.S. is morally obligated to sacrifice the same number of our own citizens before we can take any action in our own defense? Now, as for the premise ... Let's suppose the U.S. policy has been to explicitly tell Isreal to sacrifice its people to suicide bombers. Why would they listen to us? Could it be to keep receiving all the military and other financial aid we provide? Do you really think there are no strings attached? If you don't want Israel to feel bound by U.S. policy, all they have to do is stop taking the money. This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Post #8,391 by bluke 9/11/01 3:49:44 PM Reply	Why not? If the US believes that restraint is the right policy for others why not for itself. Like it or not the US is the only superpower in the world. Even if the US gave Israel no money it still has alot of control and an important voice. Europe gives Israel no money, yet when they speak people here listen. The reason is simple. Israel is a small country and depends on trade etc. for survival.
Post #8,375 by bluke 9/11/01 3:32:49 PM Reply	And Americans accuse Israel of using excessive force????????
Post #8,380 by Andrew Grygus 9/11/01 3:36:36 PM Reply	I do not think you will find that I have . . . . expressed that opinion. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #8,387 by bluke 9/11/01 3:45:29 PM Reply	Maybe not... but the US government certainly has.
Post #8,390 by addison 9/11/01 3:48:38 PM Reply	I seem to recall something about the "Crusades".... Something about.. Christians... going and raping and pillaging.. Islamic countries. Repeatedly. Even sent kids over for it. What we really need to do is is obliterate the culture, the whole way of looking at the world, that first motivates and then rationalizes their violence against us. Make sure the kids don't grow up to be like their parents. Teach the adults shame, if at all possible. They won't like it, but to hell with what they like. I don't think we have to destroy Islam per se So, kidnap all the kids, raise them (somewhere), destroy their religion (which, you might also note, is also a derivative from the same root as Judaism and Christianity) I think you might have a slight problem. Add to that that there are as many Muslims as Christians (assuming that's who you've got fighting for you....). So essentially you're talking about, kidnapping all the kids in the housing development over from you, and shooting all the priests, pastors, and deacons. Sure you don't want to reconsider, slightly? The Middle Eastern mindset has got to go. Funny. They say the same thing about you. Of course, I guess we can just nuke 'em, but that's getting back to merely playing by who's stick is bigger. Addison
Post #8,409 by mmoffitt 9/11/01 4:17:03 PM Reply	Yabut. "Add to that that there are as many Muslims as Christians..." But the Christians have more nukes. Mikem who flew today, briefly.
Post #8,414 by GBert 9/11/01 4:41:04 PM Reply	Everybody remembers the Crusades But nobody remembers the muslim conquest of some of the best parts of the Roman Empire. Without its connection to the east, western Europe was left to wither under those same Franks, Lombards and Goths that later laid waste Palestine. With a little foresight those conquering califs might have left Spain, Sicily, North Africa, Egypt, Syria, (and why not, Palestine too) to the Romans and saved their descendents a lot of trouble... Were Mesopotamia, Persia, East Africa, North India, Central Asia, Indonesia not enough? Giovanni
Post #8,442 by marlowe 9/11/01 7:32:54 PM Reply	Something I might want to reconsider slightly? I've got a couple of inner city housing projects in mind that would be appropriate for such treatment. No, I wouldn't kill the priests. I might mace them if they get in the way, but that's as far as it'll go. I'm forceful, but not gratuitously violent. The nuns, too. Some of them really have it coming. But I don't think the issue will arise. Some groups who make the biggest deal about their religion are the least religious of all in actual practise. I don't think the local pastor will even know who most of the residents are. ("Well, bless my soul! I haven't seen you since the baptism. Yours, that is. Still kicking and screaming and drooling and spitting up, I see.") And I'm in no hurry to bind the stump of any major religion. Just prune the more unhealthy branches. The ones that the vermin hide behind. Or, we could just slip Antabuse into the water supply and see if that helps. After all, their real diety comes in a six pack. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]

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