Basically, No

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Post #64,102

by jb4

11/20/02 2:27:22 PM

Basically, No

It's not a Freedom of/from Religion issue, it's a Freedom of/from Speech issue. Don't you get it?

BTW, I have posted on my wall a [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=56083|broomberg post] of his kid's transmogrification of the pledge: substituting "under Canada and above Mexico" for the offending phrase. Better, but still not right....

jb4
"They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink."
Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990

Post #64,129

by Ashton

11/20/02 5:04:53 PM

Yes - free speech is also the right to remain silent.

Pennsylvania passes "Pledge" bill - (Silverlock) - (61) - Nov. 15, 2002, 03:36:23 PM EST

Makes me even prouder of my daughter. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:03:08 PM EST

Gotta say this - (Silverlock) - Nov. 16, 2002, 04:56:19 AM EST

Now if that story could travel the grapevine - (Ashton) - Nov. 16, 2002, 06:03:18 AM EST

Nail #666013 in the Coffin. - (Ashton) - (57) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:26:46 PM EST

And the previous administration? - (wharris2) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:43:19 PM EST

What if they take the.. - (bepatient) - (55) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:46:06 PM EST

Just out of curiosity: Would that do it for you? -NT - (CRConrad) - (9) - Nov. 15, 2002, 04:50:19 PM EST

I don't see another... - (bepatient) - (8) - Nov. 15, 2002, 05:06:57 PM EST

The act of protesting - (imric) - (1) - Nov. 15, 2002, 05:24:41 PM EST

I suppose that - (bepatient) - Nov. 15, 2002, 05:33:07 PM EST

I'd agree 'over-reaction' if.. - (Ashton) - Nov. 15, 2002, 05:35:55 PM EST

Over reaction? - (deSitter) - Nov. 15, 2002, 09:03:37 PM EST

I agree - (Silverlock) - (2) - Nov. 16, 2002, 04:24:03 AM EST

Sure. - (bepatient) - (1) - Nov. 16, 2002, 08:22:14 AM EST

Possibly it is more significant now because of 'conditions' - (Ashton) - Nov. 16, 2002, 03:23:49 PM EST

Never mind the constitution... - (CRConrad) - Nov. 16, 2002, 07:00:57 PM EST

Here's my disagreement. - (inthane-chan) - (42) - Nov. 15, 2002, 05:11:12 PM EST

Precisamente, Thane - (Ashton) - Nov. 15, 2002, 05:52:03 PM EST

Ditto and more. - (Brandioch) - (40) - Nov. 15, 2002, 09:07:22 PM EST

Mere slothful thought + partisan Bible-thumping - I guess -NT - (Ashton) - (39) - Nov. 15, 2002, 09:50:41 PM EST

I'd guess similar. - (Brandioch) - (38) - Nov. 15, 2002, 10:53:58 PM EST

Both you and Ashton are reacting to the wrong thing - (Silverlock) - (4) - Nov. 16, 2002, 04:52:46 AM EST

I don't think so. - (Brandioch) - (2) - Nov. 16, 2002, 05:11:28 AM EST

Damn - (Silverlock) - (1) - Nov. 16, 2002, 05:49:23 AM EST

My objection. - (Brandioch) - Nov. 16, 2002, 05:31:10 PM EST

Oh,...the irony... - (jb4) - Nov. 20, 2002, 02:35:19 PM EST

A shameless barter.. - (Ashton) - (32) - Nov. 16, 2002, 05:47:40 AM EST

You got it. - (Brandioch) - (31) - Nov. 16, 2002, 05:40:29 PM EST

Tell ya what I find rilly *discouraging* about this thread - (Ashton) - (30) - Nov. 16, 2002, 08:21:44 PM EST

Ashton, are you arguing against automatic citizenship? - (wharris2) - (11) - Nov. 16, 2002, 08:51:28 PM EST

Ah, the traditional response. - (Brandioch) - Nov. 16, 2002, 09:23:21 PM EST

Believe in being as honest with my gov as they are with me\ufffd -NT - (Ashton) - Nov. 16, 2002, 09:44:13 PM EST

where in the hell do you pledge alegiance to "someone"? - (boxley) - (8) - Nov. 16, 2002, 10:09:34 PM EST

What is the pledge? - (wharris2) - (7) - Nov. 17, 2002, 07:23:57 AM EST

Sorry my constitution doesnt deport citizens - (boxley) - Nov. 17, 2002, 09:08:25 AM EST

Why thats simple... - (bepatient) - (5) - Nov. 17, 2002, 03:07:06 PM EST

React early - or watch attention span wane via next Warz ads -NT - (Ashton) - Nov. 17, 2002, 05:44:41 PM EST

Re: Why thats simple... - (wharris2) - (3) - Nov. 17, 2002, 06:51:00 PM EST

that was the Roman model - (boxley) - (2) - Nov. 17, 2002, 07:18:00 PM EST

Never had the option, here - (wharris2) - (1) - Nov. 17, 2002, 08:37:25 PM EST

that is the problem with military service being a prereq - (boxley) - Nov. 17, 2002, 09:14:25 PM EST

Because those oaths have worked. - (Brandioch) - (17) - Nov. 16, 2002, 09:07:59 PM EST

nit when did we ever breed for intelligence after slavery - (boxley) - (16) - Nov. 16, 2002, 10:11:30 PM EST

Many years ago. - (Brandioch) - (15) - Nov. 16, 2002, 11:41:10 PM EST

The link was broken way before that - (mhuber) - (14) - Nov. 18, 2002, 11:53:16 AM EST

Even more basic - - (Ashton) - Nov. 18, 2002, 03:54:10 PM EST

Evolution. - (Another Scott) - Nov. 18, 2002, 04:03:57 PM EST

You can't be serious, can you? - (Arkadiy) - (4) - Nov. 18, 2002, 04:37:12 PM EST

100% serious. - (mhuber) - (3) - Nov. 26, 2002, 02:32:00 AM EST

In that huge span - (Arkadiy) - (2) - Nov. 26, 2002, 11:12:14 AM EST

What advance in capabilities? - (mhuber) - (1) - Nov. 26, 2002, 01:24:50 PM EST

You're mixing 2 discussions here... - (Arkadiy) - Nov. 26, 2002, 01:35:58 PM EST

Can't find a reference right now... - (ben_tilly) - (6) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:23:57 PM EST

are you implying meateaters are smarter - (boxley) - (5) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:43:04 PM EST

Neither - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Nov. 18, 2002, 10:48:24 PM EST

Gould questioned that - (JayMehaffey) - (3) - Nov. 18, 2002, 11:26:04 PM EST

If he wrote about it... - (ben_tilly) - (2) - Nov. 18, 2002, 11:45:07 PM EST

Overstated the case - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - Nov. 19, 2002, 09:54:33 PM EST

That fits my recollection as well :-) -NT - (ben_tilly) - Nov. 19, 2002, 11:11:52 PM EST

Basically, No - (jb4) - (1) - Nov. 20, 2002, 02:27:22 PM EST

Yes - free speech is also the right to remain silent. -NT - (Ashton) - Nov. 20, 2002, 05:04:53 PM EST

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