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New Sure.
Most of them have been made here.

Of course...equating forced Pledge of Allegiance to the 3rd Reich is a bit extreme...but the point is made.

Then again...I don't see anyone crying about the rights of athletes forced to stand during the singing of the National Anthem either.

I guess my point is...that if this was done for dozens of years and the country didn't fall apart...why...all of a sudden...does it become some big deal? A crisis of constitutional scope.

Back to the other thread on forced conformity. Allowing those who want to do and those who don't to not...is >not allowable<...better that all don't...because we wouldn't want poor Johnny to worry about his teacher talking to his parents (Christ no...NOT THAT!)

Should this be a law. Nope. But even without this legislation...the point would be legislated. If the school system started the Pledge on its own...the legislation would be drafted and passed in the Courts. (but they don't >make< laws....yeah...right)
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
Expand Edited by bepatient Nov. 16, 2002, 08:22:14 AM EST
New Possibly it is more significant now because of 'conditions'
1) For the fact of a court adjudicated Answer: It is unConstitutional (no matter that the judge is instantly slandered and the usual doggerel ensues).

2) We have a loony AG, and that is the kind-word adjective. He has an (now Obv) agenda - and is Not disciplined by his peers-in-Power.

3) God-words were bandied about to an unprecedented degree in recent elections. Our CIEIO is fond of sprinkling them into the most improbable sentences. Pure religious pandering for 'effect'. Bad in a National-CIEIO at any time.

4) We are all ready to invade another country, first-strike: and while it has zippo to do with our putative (now almost forgotten) ID'd ENEMY ("Al-Q" and whateverhappenedto Our #1 Target we were gonnahuntdown no matter what?) 'GOD' by-any-Other-name, and Her claimed plans for >opposing< groups: figures prominently in all the bellicose matters now underway. Employing Her Name in like manner - neither soothes the troubled waters nor indicates superior intelligence. 'Crusade' - use of just that word - indicates the importance of such words, especially when STUPIDLY used.

5) A long-standing affront (to the basic secular 'contract' of the Republic) -- has no expiry date for redress. Never mind the direct affront to: the millions who deem God-words (especially politically self-serving God-words) akin to other superstitions of the past. The agnostic view is the only possible 'view' of this phenom: if you are speaking for A Country!, IMhO.

Are these enough 'reasons' for Why? Now? [or.. at all]


Ashton
     Pennsylvania passes "Pledge" bill - (Silverlock) - (61)
         Makes me even prouder of my daughter. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
             Gotta say this - (Silverlock)
             Now if that story could travel the grapevine - (Ashton)
         Nail #666013 in the Coffin. - (Ashton) - (57)
             And the previous administration? - (wharris2)
             What if they take the.. - (bepatient) - (55)
                 Just out of curiosity: Would that do it for you? -NT - (CRConrad) - (9)
                     I don't see another... - (bepatient) - (8)
                         The act of protesting - (imric) - (1)
                             I suppose that - (bepatient)
                         I'd agree 'over-reaction' if.. - (Ashton)
                         Over reaction? - (deSitter)
                         I agree - (Silverlock) - (2)
                             Sure. - (bepatient) - (1)
                                 Possibly it is more significant now because of 'conditions' - (Ashton)
                         Never mind the constitution... - (CRConrad)
                 Here's my disagreement. - (inthane-chan) - (42)
                     Precisamente, Thane - (Ashton)
                     Ditto and more. - (Brandioch) - (40)
                         Mere slothful thought + partisan Bible-thumping - I guess -NT - (Ashton) - (39)
                             I'd guess similar. - (Brandioch) - (38)
                                 Both you and Ashton are reacting to the wrong thing - (Silverlock) - (4)
                                     I don't think so. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                         Damn - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                             My objection. - (Brandioch)
                                     Oh,...the irony... - (jb4)
                                 A shameless barter.. - (Ashton) - (32)
                                     You got it. - (Brandioch) - (31)
                                         Tell ya what I find rilly *discouraging* about this thread - (Ashton) - (30)
                                             Ashton, are you arguing against automatic citizenship? - (wharris2) - (11)
                                                 Ah, the traditional response. - (Brandioch)
                                                 Believe in being as honest with my gov as they are with me\ufffd -NT - (Ashton)
                                                 where in the hell do you pledge alegiance to "someone"? - (boxley) - (8)
                                                     What is the pledge? - (wharris2) - (7)
                                                         Sorry my constitution doesnt deport citizens - (boxley)
                                                         Why thats simple... - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                             React early - or watch attention span wane via next Warz ads -NT - (Ashton)
                                                             Re: Why thats simple... - (wharris2) - (3)
                                                                 that was the Roman model - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                     Never had the option, here - (wharris2) - (1)
                                                                         that is the problem with military service being a prereq - (boxley)
                                             Because those oaths have worked. - (Brandioch) - (17)
                                                 nit when did we ever breed for intelligence after slavery - (boxley) - (16)
                                                     Many years ago. - (Brandioch) - (15)
                                                         The link was broken way before that - (mhuber) - (14)
                                                             Even more basic - - (Ashton)
                                                             Evolution. - (Another Scott)
                                                             You can't be serious, can you? - (Arkadiy) - (4)
                                                                 100% serious. - (mhuber) - (3)
                                                                     In that huge span - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                                         What advance in capabilities? - (mhuber) - (1)
                                                                             You're mixing 2 discussions here... - (Arkadiy)
                                                             Can't find a reference right now... - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                                 are you implying meateaters are smarter - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                     Neither - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                                         Gould questioned that - (JayMehaffey) - (3)
                                                                             If he wrote about it... - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                                                 Overstated the case - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                                                                                     That fits my recollection as well :-) -NT - (ben_tilly)
                 Basically, No - (jb4) - (1)
                     Yes - free speech is also the right to remain silent. -NT - (Ashton)

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