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New Judeo- the Christian form of martial arts,
has brought into the language these concepts. Psychology, a wannabe-science - but at least one based on observation - has another kind of model. And most any shrink or other observer of our-type animals will say: No One.. ever believes self to be evil!

'Evil' is a religio-word as are demons, incubii, succubi etc. [Nasty Words whose superstitious overtones led to lots of tortured children and older, in Salem and elsewhere] Just as Old Nick, Satan, Beelzebub.. stories of fallen angels yada yada have mesmerized folks. Just as 'things which go bump in the night' generated those images from the state of our fear of the unknown. We come equipped with a vivid imagination.

You imagine there's anything New today re the above processes? Transistors can make the internal fearfulness of the I Don't Know's just.. go away silently?

A Hitler will tell you that the 'steps' he took were for the (cosmically) Correct placement of \ufffdbermensch into ruling positions over lower; lesser beings. These Supermen, aided by eugenics (phrenology and other imaginined 'science' too) - would be an Improved Species\ufffd. As you are doubtless aware, ensconced in Castle W___ (too lazy to look it up) were *His* versions of the baggage of a couple millennia of Demonologies, only his choice was to enshrine Erda and other Teutonic fantasies instead of Christian ones. Difference? Only in the attributes and names: in every case inventions of human minds. QED

Evil? depends upon the scale of "doing Good" one looks at.. in this "world of dualisms" and the umm collateral damage on that Great Undertaking. Evil.. to seek progress? Which entity shall judge?

(We see that "collateral damage" is alive and well as YAN throwaway-line in 2002. Hmmm.)

Mad then? That returns us to the pseudo-science of determining basic functional error in the mind/brain - a machinelike synergy only occasionally visited by that (too readily attributed): Original Thought. (We have to try for some model like this - but we need not imagine that the model is more than a crude approximation of our physical and metaphysical 'being'.)

Sorry but.. my view is that our sordid history of fright-derived 'entities' and concepts like 'Evil' - which we associate with the behaviour of some of these phantasms: has done and always shall lead to endless succession of warring 'herders of different-named fantasies'.

No change in sight, until we are done with the toys of childhood and recognize that WE must construct societies whose laws and mores tend to promote "good behaviour" towards sentient animals and respect.. for the others. Ditto laws and mores which provide deterrence and finally punishment or incarceration for "bad behaviour". (Killing off the defectives - merely devalues the above societal intent to foster respect. It's hypocritical and it doesn't deter 'badness', we have noticed. States killing people is .. rilly a stupid way of teaching 'goodness')

We don't need a Demonology to accomplish this - we merely need to grow up. And along the way: lose the freight (and the fright) of our primitive period.


Ashton
not holding breath

PS - Manson? I don't care what you want to call him or attribute his behaviour to: keep a wall between him and the rest of the zoo. It's the best we can do, ignorant as we are. He's where he belongs. We got that one right. It happens.
New "Evil" and "Good" are magical incantations.
Evil? depends upon the scale of "doing Good" one looks at.. in this "world of dualisms" and the umm collateral damage on that Great Undertaking. Evil.. to seek progress? Which entity shall judge?
I'd agree.

Sorry but.. my view is that our sordid history of fright-derived 'entities' and concepts like 'Evil' - which we associate with the behaviour of some of these phantasms: has done and always shall lead to endless succession of warring 'herders of different-named fantasies'.
Again, I'd agree.

No change in sight, until we are done with the toys of childhood and recognize that WE must construct societies whose laws and mores tend to promote "good behaviour" towards sentient animals and respect.. for the others. Ditto laws and mores which provide deterrence and finally punishment or incarceration for "bad behaviour". (Killing off the defectives - merely devalues the above societal intent to foster respect. It's hypocritical and it doesn't deter 'badness', we have noticed. States killing people is .. rilly a stupid way of teaching 'goodness')
Step #1. Determine what is "good". That is, determine what the basic values, mores, etc will be.

Step #2. Determine what is "bad". That is, determine what the taboos and such are.

Be able to express these in societal context.

We don't need a Demonology to accomplish this - we merely need to grow up. And along the way: lose the freight (and the fright) of our primitive period.
:)

If I may borrow your phrase, no one thinks of themselves as "immature" or "primative" or "superstitious".

We also need to realize that society is NOT something layered upon a group of people. Society IS that group of people.

The same thing with politics.

Society and politics are BOTH derived from the group.

Which was the point of my posting on Fascism.

Deconstruct society and the laws and the politics and you get......

The individual.

Determine WHAT it is in the individual that results in various societies and political systems and so forth.

We don't need magical terms like "good" or "evil" for this.

This is nothing more or less than the INDIVIDUAL's value system in practice.

When someone's value system clashes with your value system, then that person is "evil".

On the other hand, when your value system clashes with the other person's value system, then you are "evil".

When his value system supports your value system, he is "good".

etc.

Now, since it is very unlikely that both value systems are complete opposites.........

In fact, the value system of "whatever I want, I should have" usually leads to conflict AMONGST PEOPLE WITH THE EXACT SAME VALUE SYSTEM.
New Did you just define 'Rugged Induhvidualism' ?? [cackle]
In fact, the value system of "whatever I want, I should have" usually leads to conflict AMONGST PEOPLE WITH THE EXACT SAME VALUE SYSTEM.
Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle..

..sometimes the Simple is not simplistic. Yup, there it be in a wacko-Nut-shell. The Brits have a briefer summary IIRC,

I'm alright, Jack...

I have a dream..
Someday we shall evolve to the stage wherein we shall be ready for self-Government. If.. we're here long enough. If.


Ashton
meanwhile it's the Ren & Stimpy Show writ large
New Ash. you're fascinated by religion
-drl

I'm so happy I could scalp someone. Mark Twain
New It's fundamental to aberrant homo-sap behaviour.
     what the product of an American education should be - (boxley) - (61)
         "How to detect blab in any kind of speech" - discrimination. -NT - (Ashton)
         Additions - (Brandioch)
         Disagree with "the classics" as you stated - (wharris2) - (56)
             Gotta disagree there because if you study the classics - (boxley) - (43)
                 I'm not dissing all classics - (wharris2) - (42)
                     re: nobody today can agree or argue civily on philosophy - (boxley)
                     Yeah sure.. and you can drive a car - (Ashton) - (40)
                         Think about what philosophy has taught you. - (Brandioch) - (39)
                             And that's what's wrong with you - (wharris2) - (38)
                                 One can attend class and still not be "educated". - (Brandioch) - (37)
                                     Small factual error noted: - (Ashton)
                                     yes virginioch there is good and evil - (boxley) - (35)
                                         Vallient job, box - (wharris2)
                                         Can you give more details? - (Brandioch) - (33)
                                             have a f2f with chuck - (boxley) - (32)
                                                 That is "evil"? - (Brandioch) - (24)
                                                     re-read my post - (boxley) - (23)
                                                         Who's Chuck? - (Brandioch) - (22)
                                                             "chuck don surf" chuck aka charles manson evil guarrantied -NT - (boxley) - (21)
                                                                 Manson is insane, deranged, nuts, mentally incompetant, etc. - (Brandioch) - (20)
                                                                     none of the above chuck is entirely sane - (boxley) - (19)
                                                                         I've seen him in interviews. - (Brandioch) - (18)
                                                                             ROFL! - (boxley) - (17)
                                                                                 What? - (Brandioch) - (16)
                                                                                     okay, now explain why Herr Hitler was not evil - (boxley) - (15)
                                                                                         There are only 6 billion people in the world? - (Brandioch) - (14)
                                                                                             lets go ---> you were entirely wrong about Manson - (boxley) - (13)
                                                                                                 Okay. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                     deal ^oo^ -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                                     >> - (altmann)
                                                                                                 You didn't need me. -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                                                 Evil as you describe it - (deSitter) - (8)
                                                                                                     beg to disagree - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                                                         Judeo- the Christian form of martial arts, - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                                                                             "Evil" and "Good" are magical incantations. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                                                                                                 Did you just define 'Rugged Induhvidualism' ?? [cackle] - (Ashton)
                                                                                                             Ash. you're fascinated by religion -NT - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                                                 It's fundamental to aberrant homo-sap behaviour. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                         Now I know why you embrace anarchy - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                                                                             nope. more simplistic - (boxley)
                                                 You can't deal with Brandi, Box - (wharris2) - (6)
                                                     he's actually a conservative with sleeves -NT - (boxley) - (4)
                                                         Or anarchist. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                                             no yer not I am - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                 That's it. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                                                     then you are not an anarchist but a conservative -NT - (boxley)
                                                     Yawn.. the plea of the unarmed in any conflict. Et tu? -NT - (Ashton)
             Robert A. Heinlen once said - (jake123) - (11)
                 A post like this - - (Ashton) - (7)
                     Thanks for the compliment, Ash. -NT - (jake123)
                     your gran would have loved dinner at our house - (boxley) - (5)
                         You're too smart to constantly imagine Opposites. - (Ashton) - (4)
                             hmm I missed something here - (boxley) - (3)
                                 Ah.. clearer - (Ashton) - (2)
                                     Re: Small 'world'. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                         My memory is fuzzy on the details now - (Ashton)
                 Let me echo Ashton... - (jb4) - (1)
                     Thanks, also. - (jake123)
                 Allow me to add my voice to the chorus. - (mmoffitt)
         Short answer: a citizen. -NT - (jake123) - (1)
             !! thou sayest -NT - (Ashton)

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