Re: Could it have been a barrier? :-)

Post #59,342 by wharris2 10/25/02 1:38:25 AM Reply	Re: Could it have been a barrier? :-) According to Brandioch, it couldn't have possibly have been a barrier or a fence or a wall or anything.
Post #59,347 by Brandioch 10/25/02 2:10:28 AM Reply	So nice to see a 4th stooge. Again, what I said was that there was not a wall along the border between East Germany and West Germany. In fact, I've specifically stated that portions of the border had walls but that most of it was fenced with guard towers. I have provided photographs of such. But that doesn't fit your viewpoint so you don't recall that. Mike, Pathetic and wharris2, looks like I get another hat trick. I'll open with three stooges.
Post #59,349 by bepatient 10/25/02 2:14:21 AM Reply	No humor left on your planet? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #59,350 by Brandioch 10/25/02 2:15:42 AM Reply	Sorry, I outgrew Stooge humour.
Post #59,351 by bepatient 10/25/02 2:18:31 AM Reply	Ah...fair enough. Guess its a good thing the joke was directed to someone else then. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #59,415 by Brandioch 10/25/02 11:47:13 AM Reply	Reading just isn't your forte, is it? Guess its a good thing the joke was directed to someone else then. and, from the original post... According to Brandioch, it couldn't have possibly have been a barrier or a fence or a wall or anything. Ah, I understand now. You must believe that there is a tax on the blockquote tag or something.
Post #59,418 by bepatient 10/25/02 12:00:09 PM Reply	I see that parent and child threading isn't yours. Such is life in the big city. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #59,419 by Brandioch 10/25/02 12:08:29 PM Reply	I guess you have to be right eventually. So sorry that it hasn't happened yet. But keep at it. I see that parent and child threading isn't yours. #59328 Stooge #1 (original post, my name in subject) #59338 Stooge #2 #59340 Stooge #3 #59342 Stooge #2 (uses my name) #59347 (my first post in that thread) Hmmm, now I guess you're going to claim that I was wrong because you were talking about threaded processes or some such.
Post #59,433 by bepatient 10/25/02 1:06:39 PM Reply	So you are claiming to be wharris2? [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=59338\|http://z.iwethey.org...w?contentid=59338] You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #59,441 by Brandioch 10/25/02 2:25:13 PM Reply	Re: Could it have been a barrier? :-) [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=59342\|Re: Could it have been a barrier? :-)] According to Brandioch, it couldn't have possibly have been a barrier or a fence or a wall or anything.
Post #59,446 by bepatient 10/25/02 2:44:46 PM Reply	.o0o. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #59,448 by screamer 10/25/02 2:58:22 PM Reply	et tu? So you're joining the boycott? I'm just gonna keep "the symbol" going until he admits he was wrong and apologizes... So I guess we'll just have to get used to "the symbol". A week went by and now it's july... Here fido. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #59,451 by Brandioch 10/25/02 3:11:33 PM Reply	You want an apology? I'm sorry you're a liar. I'm sorry you don't have the first clue what the Truman Doctrine was. I'm sorry you have to try to cover up your lies by hiding behind "fence" == "wall".
Post #59,459 by screamer 10/25/02 3:22:52 PM Reply	-----oooo0000oooo----- Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #59,466 by deSitter 10/25/02 3:53:55 PM Reply	What IS this ^^^ -drl
Post #59,479 by screamer 10/25/02 4:38:30 PM Reply	It's a "horizontal line" that was used by Michel Merlin in his posts. I should clarify that I mean absolutely no disrepect to Michel by using it (I emailed him after he was barred from an iteration of IWETHEY and he was quite a nice guy - still didn't agree with his views on MS or monopolies)... That said, and as you might remember, Michel got the reputation for simply kneejerking his responses and not following any logic. When called out on it, he called everyone liars (calumnators? sp?) and etc... See the analogy. He is calling me a liar because he claims that I was not in the army, not a Russian linguist and not stationed at the border (which I most certainly was) because I don't "accept" his definition of the wall. There are many tortured threads below. He is wrong, and I want him to admit it. Then I want an apology. Then I will stop using the ---ooo000ooo--- and treat him as a sentient being/adult. I do understand that my current treatment is equally childish, but heh? Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #59,483 by Brandioch 10/25/02 4:56:48 PM Reply	You still can't keep it straight. He is calling me a liar because he claims that I was not in the army,... No, I did not. ...not a Russian linguist... No, I did not. ...and not stationed at the border... Hmmm, to make this perfectly clear, you were not stationed at the border when there was a border there. ...(which I most certainly was) because I don't "accept" his definition of the wall. No. To clarify, again, because you said there was a wall running along the entire country, just like there was in Berlin, shows that you weren't at the border when there was a border there. And I'm calling you a liar because you keep telling lies. He is wrong, and I want him to admit it. Wrong about what? Was I wrong about there not being a wall running along the border of East Germany? The photographs show otherwise. Was I wrong that the words "fence" and "wall" are NOT interchangable? Check with Chris on that one. Was I wrong that you keep telling lies? Well, there are a couple examples right in your post there. Or is this some new definition of "wrong" similar to your definitions of "wall" and "fence"? I thought so.
Post #59,485 by Brandioch 10/25/02 5:01:38 PM Reply	A quick P.S.: Or was I wrong when I said you were wrong about our military bases in Germany being there to make sure the Germans never forgot their mistake? I'll counter this with the Truman Doctrine and the concept of "Containment" from 1947. You might want to, also, read up on the Marshall Plan and some of Marshall's speeches. Pay particular attention to things about Greece and Turkey.
Post #59,499 by screamer 10/25/02 5:26:55 PM Reply	Look, I know after many years... that it is not within you to apologize or admit any mistakes in your "logic". You apparently take great pride in being "right" about everything. I also know that this particular discussion that we are in is difficult because of your personality. I want you to understand that I sincerely want this to stop. I was indeed TDY'ed at Wobeck many times as I was permanently stationed in Wurzburg with a tactical MI battalion. (Wobeck is a city and had a distinct wall running through it - not barrier, not fence - wall. And Wobeck is not Berlin. I also did TDY in numerous other temporary sites along the border predominately near the Fulda Gap within earshot of Magdeburg...) Many of the sites are probably still classified. Even Wobeck may be. I am offended that you continue to call me a "liar" about something I'm definately not lying about. My background is not something that I lie about and I take great offense to your questioning my honesty on such matters. To me, no matter what your reasoning, this is going way over the line. If you wish take issue with my statements in a debate, that's fine. I disagree with a lot of your premises and conclusions and will be glad to continue to debate with you those with which I take issue. In the meantime, I honestly wish that you would take a little time and consider just for a moment that you might actually be in error. Just for a moment. I have. That is why I am writing this now instead of continuing to "taunt" you. If you cannot apologize, perhaps you could acknowledge that maybe you went over the line in our discussions and that would suffice with me. Believe me, I am very sorry that we have had this train wreck out in public and I believe that it may be too late to save face today, but there is always tomorrow. If you feel the need to knee-jerk this message into a point by point tirade, please resist the urge as I am getting tired of typing the "sign" already. Simply do not respond and I'll understand our arrangement. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #59,504 by Brandioch 10/25/02 5:37:56 PM Reply	A cease fire. You knock off the insults and I'll knock off the insults. Agreed.
Post #59,513 by screamer 10/25/02 5:48:23 PM Reply	A cease fire Agreed. Tomorrow is Breeders Cup Day, something I look forward to all year. I'm glad we can put this to rest. If I don't respond again it is not a sign of indifference/etc..., it is a sign that I'm busy studying the Daily Racing Form and out of town for the weekend :-) Have a nice weekend yourself. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #59,490 by Ashton 10/25/02 5:13:41 PM Reply	Er umm - not Quite so simple a dismissal please despite the just plain roll-in-the snow this has all become.. OK Dan, let's look at the quote One More Time: Dude, did you ever leave Berlin? I was on border sites (THE FUCKING WALL) nowhere near Berlin... It ran the entire length of the country. Yes, the focussing upon the semantic difference between wall and various synonyms/overlapping classes has reached the height of punctiliousness. Still.. context: there are indeed many folks who imagine that there was a WALL exactly like the one seen in many pics in BERLIN == all the way across Germany. Imputation that "a person saw 'The WALL'" outside Berlin, might or might not trigger a certain skeptical note about whether that person had any more info than Berlin photos (though a question addressed to the statement would surely clarify. That step got omitted..) Underneath that red herring however - lie some other statements of yours, which I deign not to go back and link-to: re the Purpose of that wall/barrier. That point is not so trivial and is further cause for a listener's skepticism. Now I have no doubt of your Russian language experience, as we've talked. Nor do I imagine you invented / would invent your itinerary over there. Nor is Brandioch or anyone entitled to confuse a healthy skepticism with proven dissembling. BTW the 'liar' tag was levelled at the quote above regarding the wall, IIRC. Then later, your other claims were listed as 'unproven' - which of course they are [For example no one here is even remotely aware of my extra-Terrestrial origins, and wouldn't believe them if I claimed them]. All in all, I believe that it is a rather large misapprehension to have confused the reasons for US troops in Germany (at least.. many years after the end of WW-II). I thought it was obvious since the '50s why 'we' were there and planned to stay the duration of that Cold War\ufffd. Nothing or little to do with "keeping Germans away from beer-halls festooned with odd red, white and black banners, with Erwache at the bottom". HTH, Ashton
Post #59,508 by screamer 10/25/02 5:42:55 PM Reply	Fair, sort of... but given my background - B.S. in Russian after the army, I tend to take a Russian historical perspective of the wall and "why" it existed. It is an oversimplification to say that the Russians put it there solely to keep Germany from reuniting, this is true. But the Russians did have a justifiable fear of Western Europe - Germany in particular- and they (the Russians) felt justified in keeping forces in the Eastern Block of nations to ensure that they would not attack again. This is the meta I was after in the original thread with Brandioch. That it is not uncommon after a "hot" war to insist that terms of surrender are kept - be they by UN inspection or by keeping occupying forces in the conquered nation. I also know that you and I disagree (maybe) on whether appeasement as a national strategy is effective. It's something that I haven't totally made up my mind about but I am leaning towards non-appeasement/military as I think that the oil reserves (yep, it's all about the oil) make this particular tyrant a little too dangerous. What I haven't determined is if my fear is rational or irrational. That is the million dollar question for me. A little rational fear, such as don't put your hand in the fire, has kept this species going. The little men that go bump at night (relatives of yours, alien master?), etc. being the irrational. I don't know exactly where Hussein fits on this scale. But I digress... I already attempted to diffuse this. We'll see what happens. Just a few thoughts, Screamer Living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see, it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out it doesn't matter much to me J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
Post #59,481 by Ashton 10/25/02 4:43:48 PM Reply	Why it's the familiar post-embroidery of a Famous Person whose initials are MM. As to what it is about here: imputation of kinship. Confusing because [my take] buried beneath the putative right-shift argument about the er "class-boundary of the idea 'wall'" - are some other presumptions, n-posts ago. So the apparent mere punctiliousness about the semantics of a word is focussed upon; meanwhile the presumptions about Why there was a barrier erected? - and the argument whether some folk(s?)' initial presumptions about that reason - were erroneous: seems to have been buried in the noise. As to which camp is Right, well I have an opinion which doubtless is Right-eous enough.. because it's mine. :-\ufffd Ashton hey even big kids like snowball fights too, after the Pernod
Post #59,487 by wharris2 10/25/02 5:06:35 PM Reply	Re: Why it's Ashton, you babble a lot, but that was almost the most sane comment I've read. :=)
Post #59,492 by Ashton 10/25/02 5:17:50 PM Reply	One person's babble is another's Enlightenment____Ommmmm
Post #59,576 by deSitter 10/25/02 10:47:43 PM Reply	Re: What IS this ^^^ No! I know all that - what did MERLIN think it was? Ziggy? -drl
Post #59,577 by deSitter 10/25/02 10:50:26 PM Reply	WTF I replied to myself -drl
Post #59,589 by Ashton 10/25/02 11:41:24 PM Reply	No Idea.. what it was supposed to 'mean'.. doodling?
Post #59,452 by bepatient 10/25/02 3:12:18 PM Reply	Rofl... ...I listened to that on my walk into work this morning ;) This is the Central Scruuuuuuutinizer. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

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