You missed the important bit

Post #57,607 by pwhysall 10/18/02 4:58:46 PM Reply	You missed the important bit which is the "well regulated militia" part. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #57,612 by Yendor 10/18/02 5:08:22 PM Reply	Re: You missed the important bit We've got one of those. You and/or I might or might not agree what what they do/how they do it, but damn if they're not well-regulated. They've got regulations out the wazoo. -YendorMike What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about? - Jimmy Buffett, June 20, 2002, Tinley Park
Post #57,688 by deSitter 10/18/02 8:26:46 PM Reply	Re: You missed the important bit This is interesting - you're arguing for the large standing army that Jefferson dreaded to protect you. If the US should start to go really bad, how would we stop it? -drl
Post #57,692 by imric 10/18/02 8:34:40 PM Reply	Resistance is Futile! Submit! Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #57,703 by Yendor 10/18/02 8:59:11 PM Reply	Re: You missed the important bit If the US should start to go really bad, how would we stop it? This is why I have my right to keep and bear arms, thankyouverymuch. -YendorMike What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about? - Jimmy Buffett, June 20, 2002, Tinley Park
Post #57,708 by deSitter 10/18/02 9:06:46 PM 10/18/02 9:07:32 PM Reply	Re: You missed the important bit Your popguns are going to be a lot of use against Apache helicopters! Not to mention B52s. When it comes right down to it, the only real use of the right to bear arms is against your neighbors who might try to hurt you or your family (a legitimate axiomatic right) but in its original context, it's meaningless in some sense. -drl Edited by deSitter Oct. 18, 2002, 09:07:32 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #57,721 by imric 10/18/02 9:28:52 PM Reply	Resistance is Futile! Submit! Ya know what? I want the ability to resist. And- if 'we' get assistance from other countries... Well. Sounds like other successful civil revolts. Throughout history. They've ALWAYS been 'against the odds'. It's always foolish and dangerous to oppose those in power. It's also sometimes necessary. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #57,764 by Brandioch 10/19/02 12:18:03 AM Reply	They can kill us, but they can't conquer us. Yep, a rifle won't be much use against a bomber. But that bomber will have to take out EVERY person owning a rifle. And they aren't that accurate. There are more civilians than there are soldiers. It takes a while to train a pilot. It takes one bullet to kill a pilot. It takes a while to train a flight crew. It takes 3 bullets to kill a flight crew. And THAT is the scenario that is most likely to happen. The government will have to round up the REGISTERED owners of weapons BEFORE sending in the helicopters. Otherwise, the soldiers can be picked off by the locals.
Post #57,769 by deSitter 10/19/02 12:27:13 AM Reply	I Claim the Law of 8! -drl
Post #57,917 by inthane-chan 10/19/02 11:34:42 PM Reply	Ok book. Sucky movie. End of world rescheduled for day after tomorrow. Something should probably be done. Please advise.
Post #57,946 by deSitter 10/20/02 10:48:26 AM Reply	David Brin Liked The Movie - Neener -drl
Post #57,951 by inthane-chan 10/20/02 11:19:56 AM Reply	Brin thought it worked out as well as it could. My best analogy is this: watching Kevin Costner's three hour epic is a bit like having a great big Golden Retriever jump on your lap and lick your face, while waving a flag tied to its tail. It's big, floppy, uncoordinated, overeager, sometimes gorgeous -- occasionally a bit goofy -- and so big-hearted that something inside of you has to give... that is, if you like that sort of thing. In sum, despite many disappointments, I have to say that I'm not ashamed to be associated with The Postman movie. Yes, the book is much better! ;-) And yes, the film might have benefited a lot if the director ever had a few brews with the guy who told the original story. Yet there's something deeply likable about this film, despite its flaws. Above all, in these days of rampant and contagious solipsism, with so many people claiming to despise a civilization that has been so kind to them, this movie's overall message needs to be heard. From [link\|http://www.kithrup.com/brin/postmanmoviearticle.html\|here.] I get the feeling that he's happy it didn't turn out worse, rather than bouncing up and down for joy at how good it turned out. Brin's something of an optimist, and when his own work is concerned, has a hard time saying anything negative IMO. End of world rescheduled for day after tomorrow. Something should probably be done. Please advise.
Post #57,952 by deSitter 10/20/02 11:26:11 AM Reply	I liked it.. ..for Tom Petty if for no other reason. It was hugely entertaining, like Robin Hood. Costner makes entertaining movies. -drl
Post #57,613 by Ashton 10/18/02 5:11:44 PM Reply	Troublemaker.. yeah that part just doesn't get scanned.. It's so bloody inconvenient - for being the introductory clause and all. Maybe a lot like the Indian rope trick; nobody pays attention to the small attached string from the ceiling because they so much want to Believe. S'OK though - millions of obfuscatory words have already been created on this topic, like the Bible: explaining what they Really meant, and just didn't know how to say it. Zzzzzzzzz
Post #57,691 by imric 10/18/02 8:32:07 PM Reply	Militia. mi\ufffdli\ufffdtia n. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers. A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service. Not a collective right to be a servant of the state. It is a right "of the people". Think Lexington and Concord. If the people can't keep guns, then the right to be in a militia is abridged. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #57,727 by Ashton 10/18/02 9:55:53 PM Reply	OK maybe - but disingenuous. The argument for individual ownership remains to be presumed under the "rights not specifically enumerated.." clause. De facto - we haven't the foggiest what % of gun purchases have the slightest relationship ['cept spin] to 'protecting self from the next / or present fascist government'. Most purchases, I aver: are about Liking things that make noise + all that Power in Your hand\ufffd. It's a testosterone, image/ad thing and more often of late - it's about 'protection' from neighbors (vicious or wanna-be robbers) not govt. (We know why the bad-guys want them) As to Aux Barricades! Mon Freres - at the point where the HomeLand Gestapo starts wearing shiny boots? I don't think the 'consumers' have the guts or the gumption; most will 'adapt-to' lost-freedom by lost-freedom. As in the near unanimous passing of PATRIOT. Belly-ache a bit then go docilely; comfort is our Major Drug of choice. All Gun discussions are therefore - disingenuous word-play, on a par with The Ontological Proof of Jesus [with-dismissal-of all the other Contenders: 'logically' of course]. cha cha cha Ashton now a glass bottle of 'phlogiston' .. merely thrown
Post #57,748 by imric 10/18/02 11:10:19 PM Reply	Don't care why people buy em. As long as they can have them when it counts. There is nothing disingenious about that. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #57,768 by Brandioch 10/19/02 12:24:06 AM Reply	Doesn't matter, and can't be verified. When you start cracking down on who has the "right" reasons for owning a gun, you hit an impossible assessment. So, rather than determine who has the "right" reasons, just don't bother with it. The people have the right to own guns. This right is so that we can form a militia when necessary. (in case of invasion or governmental incursions). Some people will have guns for this reason, some will have them because they like them, some will have them because of the feeling of power. But they will all have the right own them. Even someone who just likes guns MAY be able to help if we're invaded. Someone who likes the feeling of power MAY be able to stand against a Fascist government. The POTENTIAL is there. BUT, when you remove the weapons, you also remove that potential. Err on the side of the rights of the people.
Post #57,790 by Ashton 10/19/02 4:18:04 AM Reply	'Bowling for Columbine' Michael Moore's new movie - from the review I read, seems to be a jaundiced view of our cockamamie erotic relationship with Guns and the 11,000 offed last year by those. Isn't that about 1/5th the amount from cars - essential transport? I plan to see it, even though MM doesn't pretend to have made an academic 'documentary' (and I doubt anyone but a furriner could - and we still wouldn't listen). Lesser of two evils then, again {sigh}: I will concede that widespread ownership by the frequently testosterone-crazed, many with very bad manners to go with their personal arsenal - still trumps any (effective means of) total confiscation of privately owned weapons. This I'd agree, today: such as we are [sick] and - such as is the trend of recent governments and their perverse interest in growing Corporate power over citizen power. So.. should I find self needing to join some next barricades, I'll bring along my previous marksmanship skills - right alongside hunter Joe-Bob and his collection of heads of small --> large furry mammals on the Den wall. (Tomorrow, when there are All New People - I'd press on towards adulthood and the crushing of most of these weapons, as they are seen to be both unneeded and indictive of a pre-civil society, hooked on violence as 'recreation'.) WTF - it beats Sam Walton as my new CIEIO / F\ufffdhrer, Bally as Treasurer and Rev Foulwell as Sinister of Propaganda. Ashton Reluctant Sniper but still preferable to Willing Sheep

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