Just FYI

Awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Carter has been widely interpreted as
criticism of the Bush administration. Nobel Committee Chairman Gunnar Berge
went on the record as saying "It should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken".
"It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States.".

If certain members of the Nobel Committee choose to engage in political jousting.....they should not be surprised if their poster boy gets roughed up.

Carter has consistently proven himself to be a very well intentioned chump.
Iran, Iraq, Cuba, N. Korea. While his sincerity is beyond doubt (IMO) his actual contributions to world peace are questionable. Some sheep on the Welsh hillsides are just as deserving of the Nobel Peace prize......

Also let's not forget ....this is a body which awarded the Nobel Peace Prize to Yasser Arafat. Enough said.

were committed against the population & then hushed up under pain of death.

The S K prez (a former general) who did it got sentenced to death a few years back (then pardoned). The stories that emerged were not unlike the horror stuff at Kopassus hands, that came out of East Timor after the independance vote there, ).

Some people argued that the Kwangju massacre occured because Carter allowed the new pres (who had just assasinated the previous PM) to quell unrest, esp in Kwangju, by sending in the country's worst butchers (a Special Warfare group trained for killing Nth Koreans & infiltration at the DMZ) in to squash unrest in the region. The SK prez had to get Carter's ok to move those particular troops from the DMZ & Carter gave it knowing what they were & the likely outcome. Carter denied this but freddom of info allowed discovery of communications that *proved* otherwise. The SK govt only ever acknowledged that 240 died when the citizens of Kwangju emphatically insisted that 2000 was a truer figure based on people dissapearing who never returned.

Carter may well have spent many years afterwards atoning for that one act. (while typing this item I came across a press item that raises this very point about Carter, The award & Kwangju - again am pleased that others know of these things)
[link|http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0242/mamatas.php|Carter, Nobel & Kwangju]

[link|http://www.google.com/search?q=Kwangju+MASSACRE&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=n&oq=Kwangju+MSSACRE|Kwangju Massacre Links] Some of this material is pretty sickening stuff, all the more because it was condoned & hushed up by US admin.

[link|http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/kwangju3.htm|The Shorrock Article on Kwangju Massace]

Doug Marker

While on this topic - there is an additional irony related to Bush's constant attacks (verbally) on Saddam re using gas against the Kurds - When that 1st happened, US and UK had been supplying the raw materials used to make the gas & US actively hushed the details up just as they did about Kwangju - it seems utter hippocracy for Bush to now trumpet that particular evil deed years after US helped supress the details.

This only goes to prove he falseness & hollow nature of using such events selectively and in devious ways. Nothing justifies gassing civilians, or slaughtering student protesters viciously, just as nothing justified Kopassus attempts to massacre & relocate the *entire pro-independance* population of East Timor after the Independance vote there.

It is sickening when US leaders pretend to be taking the moral high ground when the overwhelming facts are that what is being done is pure manipulation of events for devious political purposes.

Post #57,591 by Mike 10/18/02 3:49:04 PM Reply	Just FYI [link\|http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/04/korea.brink/\|Link] I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
Post #57,618 by Simon_Jester 10/18/02 5:18:48 PM Reply	The timing of the information has caused some people to wonder if it was a jab aimed at Carter's recent Peace Prize.
Post #57,836 by Mike 10/19/02 2:09:49 PM Reply	The motive is certainly there Awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Carter has been widely interpreted as criticism of the Bush administration. Nobel Committee Chairman Gunnar Berge went on the record as saying "It should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken". "It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States.". If certain members of the Nobel Committee choose to engage in political jousting.....they should not be surprised if their poster boy gets roughed up. Carter has consistently proven himself to be a very well intentioned chump. Iran, Iraq, Cuba, N. Korea. While his sincerity is beyond doubt (IMO) his actual contributions to world peace are questionable. Some sheep on the Welsh hillsides are just as deserving of the Nobel Peace prize...... Also let's not forget ....this is a body which awarded the Nobel Peace Prize to Yasser Arafat. Enough said. I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
Post #57,904 by dmarker 10/19/02 10:43:18 PM 10/20/02 8:17:00 AM Reply	Re: Carter was prez when S.Koreas worst attrocities ... were committed against the population & then hushed up under pain of death. The S K prez (a former general) who did it got sentenced to death a few years back (then pardoned). The stories that emerged were not unlike the horror stuff at Kopassus hands, that came out of East Timor after the independance vote there, ). Some people argued that the Kwangju massacre occured because Carter allowed the new pres (who had just assasinated the previous PM) to quell unrest, esp in Kwangju, by sending in the country's worst butchers (a Special Warfare group trained for killing Nth Koreans & infiltration at the DMZ) in to squash unrest in the region. The SK prez had to get Carter's ok to move those particular troops from the DMZ & Carter gave it knowing what they were & the likely outcome. Carter denied this but freddom of info allowed discovery of communications that proved otherwise. The SK govt only ever acknowledged that 240 died when the citizens of Kwangju emphatically insisted that 2000 was a truer figure based on people dissapearing who never returned. Carter may well have spent many years afterwards atoning for that one act. (while typing this item I came across a press item that raises this very point about Carter, The award & Kwangju - again am pleased that others know of these things) [link\|http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0242/mamatas.php\|Carter, Nobel & Kwangju] [link\|http://www.google.com/search?q=Kwangju+MASSACRE&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=n&oq=Kwangju+MSSACRE\|Kwangju Massacre Links] Some of this material is pretty sickening stuff, all the more because it was condoned & hushed up by US admin. [link\|http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/kwangju3.htm\|The Shorrock Article on Kwangju Massace] Doug Marker While on this topic - there is an additional irony related to Bush's constant attacks (verbally) on Saddam re using gas against the Kurds - When that 1st happened, US and UK had been supplying the raw materials used to make the gas & US actively hushed the details up just as they did about Kwangju - it seems utter hippocracy for Bush to now trumpet that particular evil deed years after US helped supress the details. This only goes to prove he falseness & hollow nature of using such events selectively and in devious ways. Nothing justifies gassing civilians, or slaughtering student protesters viciously, just as nothing justified Kopassus attempts to massacre & relocate the entire pro-independance population of East Timor after the Independance vote there. It is sickening when US leaders pretend to be taking the moral high ground when the overwhelming facts are that what is being done is pure manipulation of events for devious political purposes. Edited by dmarker Oct. 19, 2002, 10:52:22 PM EDT Edited by dmarker Oct. 20, 2002, 08:17:00 AM EDT Expand All History

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