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New Re: Head of Muslim group accuess foreigners of blast
There are two items below - 1 where the leader of the main Muslim groups defends himself and the 2nd is where the Indonesian Govt decides to blame al-Qaeda as the perps


[link|http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/15/1034561104249.html|Why would we do this ? says cleric]

I won't add any commentary so each person can judge the item for themselves.

Radical Muslims deny bomb attack and blame US

By Tony Parkinson and Louise Williams
October 15 2002

Abu Bakar ... "why would I?"

The radical Islamic group being promoted as the chief suspect for the bombing has denied any involvement in the attacks and has blamed the United States, or other "foreigners".

Abu Bakar Bashir, the cleric who leads Jemaah Islamiah (JI), accused the US of using the attack to confirm its assertion that radical Indonesian Muslims are linked to international terrorist groups, in particular al-Qaeda.

"Considering the huge power of the explosives used, it must be the work of foreigners, most probably the US," Abu Bakar said.

"Why would I do this in the midst of the US allegations against me? It would only confirm President Bush's allegation that we are the biggest terrorists in the region."

Abu Bakar and other senior JI members had gone to ground yesterday as circumstantial evidence focused suspicion on their group, which is based in central Java. However, speaking at the home of a friend in Jakarta late on Sunday, Abu Bakar spoke out.

The rhetoric sounds familiar to Western ears in the wake of September 11. If Abu Bakar is not bin Laden's equivalent in South-East Asia, he is certainly singing from the same songbook.

The editor-in-chief of one of Indonesia's most respected magazines, Tempo, Bambang Harymurti, said on a prearranged visit to Sydney that JI would be "at the top of my list" as it was trying to provoke religious war in provinces where Muslims were in the minority.

Bali, where most of the population is Hindu, was a perfect target, he said.

Translated literally, all JI means is Islamic community. It began as a village model for resisting the wicked ways of the secular world, a social structure that would allow devout Muslims in Indonesia to do their own thing.

By the late 1990s it was a fire-breathing revolutionary force, bent on eliminating all Western influences in South-East Asia and creating an Islamic super-state stretching from the Philippines, through Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei to the heartlands of the Indonesian archipelago.

More disturbingly, it became part of the campaign by an international network of Islamic extremists, led by al-Qaeda, to wage war against the West in a bid to restore Islam's stature as the dominant global ideology.

Abu Bakar had come to the attention of the authorities in Jakarta in the late 1970s, the former Islamic Youth Movement leader having set up a school with a student colleague, Abdullah Sungkar, in central Java.

The two were arrested in 1978, accused of circulating a book that urged Muslims to go to war against enemies of Islam.

A witness in the case, a university assistant rector, was murdered; but the trial went ahead in 1982. Both were sentenced to nine years' jail for subversion.

By the end of the year, however, they had won appeals to have their sentences commuted.

In 1984, then president Soeharto moved to crush them once and for all.

Abu Bakar fled to Malaysia. From this sanctuary, he helped recruit fellow Indonesians to join the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. He travelled to Saudi Arabia on fund-raising missions and sent followers to Pakistan.

Fellow exiles went on to Sweden, the Netherlands, Germany and Egypt. Abu Bakar kept in contact with all of them.

It was an era of radicalisation of the Islamic movement.

In Malaysia, Abu Bakar began to surround himself with a hard core of militants.

One of these was Hambali, alias Riduan Isamuddin, a 37-year-old Indonesian who fought against the Soviet Union and who is reputedly the mastermind of al-Qaeda cells in this part of the world. Hambali remains at large and, if Western intelligence is credible, also very active.

Another former student was Rahman al-Ghozi, who is now in jail in Manila, where police say he has confessed to a role in a series of bombings in Manila in December 2000. Thirteen JI operatives were found to be involved in various terrorist plots.

Potentially the most lethal was the plan to load seven trucks with three tonnes of ammonium nitrate (a chemical fertiliser often used in homemade bombs, and capable of the sort of explosive seen in the Bali bombings) for targets including the US embassy, the British and the Australian high commissions, the Israeli embassy, and other American assets.

After Singapore's elder statesman, Lee Kuan Yew, identified Abu Bakar as the emir or "commander" of JI, Indonesian police questioned Abu Bakar, but refused to arrest him, arguing they lacked evidence.

*******************************************************************

[link|http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/15/1034561103777.html|Indonesian Govt scrambles to blame al-Qaeda for Bali brouha]

Indonesia blames al-Qaeda for blast

By Mark Riley, Matthew Moore and Mark Baker in Kuta
October 15 2002

Wreaths at the scene of the explosion outside the Sari Club in Kuta yesterday. Photo: Rick Stevens

After a crisis meeting of its cabinet, the Indonesian Government announced it believed al-Qaeda was responsible for the terrorist attack in Bali in which the death toll now stands at 183.

According to an Indonesian news service, the defence minister, Martori Abdul Bejalil, said: "I am sure that there is a link between al-Qaeda and what happened in Bali ... There is a professional and sophisticated terrorist movement. They can disappear right after the explosion."

With the attack now appearing to have firmed Indonesia's resolve to pursue Islamic terrorists, Australia is preparing for a national day of mourning to grieve for those lost in the largest attack outside wartime.

The death toll now shows 14 Australians dead, 113 injured and 220 missing.

"The word terrorism is too antiseptic an expression to describe what happened," the Prime Minister, John Howard, told Parliament yesterday.

"What happened was barbaric, brutal mass murder with no justification."

Earlier yesterday, Mr Howard said the bombing appeared to be part of a pattern of terrorist actions in recent times, citing the October 6 attack on the French supertanker Limburg.

He announced a series of measures, following a meeting of the National Security Committee, aimed at increasing Australia's preparedness in the light of the heightened terrorist threat.

Australia's already contentious anti-terrorism laws will be further reviewed, as will the country's broader security arrangements.

The Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, and the Justice Minister, Chris Ellison, flew to Indonesia last night to liaise with their Indonesian counterparts as the hunt for those responsible for the bomb blast continues.

They will soon be joined by the Australian Federal Police Commissioner, Mick Keelty, and the head of ASIO, Dennis Richardson, who will lead the Australian component of the investigative team.

The attack has underlined Australia's vulnerability to terrorist attacks on its own shores and spawned deep public concern that the country's strong support for the United States' policies on terrorism and Iraq has made it a terrorist target.

In Indonesia, the Vice-President, Hamzah Haz, has softened his long-standing defence of one of the prime suspects, Abu Bakar Bashir.

After a crisis cabinet meeting, Mr Hamzah conceded the blast was "an act of terrorism", stressing that "no one who is involved in terrorism, ordinary people, government officials or ulama [Muslim religious leader] has impunity from the law".

This is the first time that Mr Hamzah has opened the way for Abu Bakar, 64, to be pursued.

Reports from police and security sources around the region continued to place Abu Bakar at the top of the list of suspects.

His Jemaah Islamiah group has regularly been identified as having links with al-Qaeda.

One report claims that authorities in Singapore believe there are now two al-Qaeda trained bomb making experts working in Indonesia with JI.

Intelligence sources in the region have also argued the attack appears to be carried out by Muslims because it took place in Hindu-dominated Bali, minimising the chances of killing Muslims.

The Indonesian Health Minister, Ahmed Suyudi, said the search for victims had ended. All the bodies that had been recovered were at Sanglah Hospital in Denpasar.

In Canberra, Federal Parliament passed a unanimous motion condemning the bombing.

During the debate, Mr Howard declared next Sunday a national day of mourning. The Opposition Leader, Simon Crean, said he feared last Saturday "will be our single blackest day since World War II" and called on the Government to host a regional summit to devise strategies against terrorism.

Expand Edited by dmarker2 Oct. 15, 2002, 07:44:27 AM EDT
New Doug that is the same cleric who said
"I make many knives and send them all over the world, if they cut someon e I am not at fault" So anything he says is somewhat suspect however Indonesian History will tell us that piracy cannibalism and psychotic infighting is not always from the past. Current internal Indonesian politics could have easily played a hand here.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

"Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane."
Lyndon LaRouche
New Re: Truth went up in the blast - but I agree that
The group he runs is dangerous and if not curbed somehow, will lead to massive instability in the region.

I sure as s*** don't want OBL's Andalusian fantasy on the northern tip of Australia. Even though my lot are in the minority in the region, I am quite happy to be selfish, a lot of other Aussies share this view. At least we are honest about it.

The blast has had these immediate effects ...

1) Stopped the to'ing & fro'ing of the Indonesian govt re clamping down on Islamic extremeists (the govt was always too fearful of a backlash that would wipe them out if they clamped down - the sight of a rampaging Indonesian mob would scare anyone (well maybe not a Kopassus man).

2) Created the clear impression that al-Qaeda are in Indonesia in force

3) Branded this local 'al-Qaeda' related org as filty muderous bastards (no matter who set & fired the bomb)

4) Has reversed the low Australian support for Howard's support of Bush's unilateral 'coalition'

5) Has brought terror to the hearts of Aussies and Balinese

6) Has sent shockwaves through SE Asia (Indonesian stock market nose dived) - Bali tourism will die for quite a while (airlines are already cutting back their Bali flights as tourists scarper). Fiji is named as the country that may take up the slack & in Australia there is a view that many Aussies will now holiday & spend within Australia & thus the country's economy will benefit significantly.

*******************************************

I still will argue the case that on the surface, it made no sense whatsoever for Abu Bakar to initiate a horrific attack that was so clearly going to backfire to the point of self destruction for him and his org and their dreams. This would be like me deciding to shoot you by concealing the gun behind my back & firing through myself to get you. As stupid as you want to call the guy, I don't believe he is that stupid. I think the case that says he was so is really the stupid part of the discussion.

But we will all believe what we want to & select the facts we find most palatable (even when the facts don't really exist). I already believe we will only ever be given enough circumstantial evidence to point an accusing finger at these people but never a smoking gun. Despite my thoughts on the Bali blast - I will be more than happy to see Abu Bakar's Jemaah Islamiah and their extreme behaviour, slapped down heavily (these were the bastards I mentioned in other posts, who would go around attacking bars & clubs in Java & threatening to kill Americans). Their idiot behaviour has become the weapon their enemies can manipulate against them to destroy them. But, I would never condone any scenario that might justify a covert op on one's own, in order to manipulate resentment against others.

So, we at least are sure to agree that This guy & his group need to be dealt with. My concern is how it might have been achieved.

Cheers

Doug
Expand Edited by dmarker2 Oct. 15, 2002, 09:57:59 AM EDT
New Re: You may have a point re Bashir the Bullshitter

The more I read about and spoken by Abu Bakar Bashir, the less I would trust what he says.

He is currently suing TIME mag for claiming he was linked to Terrorism.

Word in the papers now is he will be arressted & his movement disbanded.

Cheers

Doug
New even better the lascars are disbanding
right, Rogers must be turning over in his grave,
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

"Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane."
Lyndon LaRouche
New Re: The more I read of Abu Bakar Bashir's Bashers ...

The more I see them as the deep seated long term evil. Laskar mob seemed to keep their focus on Ambon & the Moluccas - these were the crew I said had Kopassus agents urging them on - theory was that early on, the civil disorder would keep Suharto in power, but that didn't happen & he went, by then the Laskars had a life of their own & Jihadistas flocked from everywhere to 'slit a Christian throat' as their jihad trophy.

I am not the *least* surprised they claim to be disbanding because now they know the tables may well turn & their past comes back & bites then hard.

Cheers

Doug
     BALI: The early (in print) theories - from SCMP - (dmarker2) - (29)
         Re: BALI: The early (in print) theories - from SCMP - (deSitter) - (3)
             Re: BALI: The early (in print) theories - from SCMP - (dmarker2) - (2)
                 Understood - (deSitter) - (1)
                     Re: These snippets paint part of the Kopassus picture - (dmarker2)
         Little Indonesian news coverage here ever, - (Ashton) - (24)
             Re: US spin doctors already working on this one - (dmarker2) - (23)
                 Re: Head of Muslim group accuess foreigners of blast - (dmarker2) - (5)
                     Doug that is the same cleric who said - (boxley) - (4)
                         Re: Truth went up in the blast - but I agree that - (dmarker2)
                         Re: You may have a point re Bashir the Bullshitter - (dmarker2) - (2)
                             even better the lascars are disbanding - (boxley) - (1)
                                 Re: The more I read of Abu Bakar Bashir's Bashers ... - (dmarker)
                 Okla. City - (deSitter)
                 Re: CIA says it had advance notice - Oz PM says 'what?' - (dmarker2) - (3)
                     Us notified Indonesia and Australia at many levels - (admin) - (2)
                         Re: That is now proving true - Oz PM in deep shit !!! - (dmarker2) - (1)
                             Don't feel too bad... - (Simon_Jester)
                 More details emerging - military C4 explosives cited - (dmarker2) - (11)
                     Reality check - (Arkadiy) - (9)
                         Re: Simple ... - (dmarker2) - (8)
                             the guy that built the bomb was ex Indonesian airforce - (boxley) - (3)
                                 Re: Built the bomb ? - (dmarker2) - (2)
                                     Murkie to the max but lets wargame - (boxley) - (1)
                                         Re: That is downright devious -- clever - (dmarker2)
                             Hold on - (Arkadiy) - (3)
                                 What would constitute proof hmm - (boxley) - (2)
                                     That is exactly the problem - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                         Re: The best proof is ??? - (dmarker2)
                     Similar event in the Philippines - (a6l6e6x)

That'll be $8.50, Mac.
77 ms