Reader responds to Verity's VB critique:

1. "Procedure and function call." No, you can't write FuncName(Param1, Param2) on its own like that. You'll get "Compile error: Expected = ".

However, if you write FuncName Param1, Param2 you DO get to discard the return value, AND Param1 and Param2 operate as reference parameters. I confirmed that using the following function:

Function FuncName(Param1, Param2)
Param1 = "Fred"
Param2 = "Wilma"
End Function

When I call the above with
Dim Param1, Param2
FuncName Param1, Param2

then Debug.Print Param1 gives me "Fred" and Debug.Print Param2 gives me "Wilma".

However, if I call it with
FuncName (Param1), (Param2)

As I'm expected to do if I want to stipulate transient value parameters, then Debug.Print returns "Empty" for both parameters, indicating the expected behaviour of VB, which Verity seems unaware of.

Even if I do supply the Call keyword, which requires the function parentheses, I can still optionally place a parameter in its own parentheses and thereby force it to act temporarily as a value parameter, e.g.

Call FuncName (Param1, (Param2))

All this illustrates the amazing flexibility of Visual Basic. Maybe coming from the C oriented background of EXE, Verity expects obfuscation where there is none.

He's right, that's perfectly clear.

What I mean by [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=939|linking conventions] is that my fingers still expect [drewk] to come off as [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user?username=drewk|drewk].

This is one of several kinds of markup which the HTML validation code could easily enough be modified to do and be controlled per user in your options (detecting URLs and making them into links is another), but that requires either slowing down rendering substantially or else the database change that I discussed.

See [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=51735|previous discussion] on this topic.

Cheers,
Ben

PS Yes, when I [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=55169|ask] for a feature, I will use it! :-)

Post #55,496 by admin 10/8/02 1:01:38 PM Reply	Reader responds to Verity's VB critique: [link\|http://www.ddj.com/documents/ddj0001vs/\|The Critique] [link\|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/27484.html\|The Response] Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,526 by drewk 10/8/02 4:38:44 PM Reply	That clarifies it 1. "Procedure and function call." No, you can't write FuncName(Param1, Param2) on its own like that. You'll get "Compile error: Expected = ". However, if you write FuncName Param1, Param2 you DO get to discard the return value, AND Param1 and Param2 operate as reference parameters. I confirmed that using the following function: Function FuncName(Param1, Param2) Param1 = "Fred" Param2 = "Wilma" End Function When I call the above with Dim Param1, Param2 FuncName Param1, Param2 then Debug.Print Param1 gives me "Fred" and Debug.Print Param2 gives me "Wilma". However, if I call it with FuncName (Param1), (Param2) As I'm expected to do if I want to stipulate transient value parameters, then Debug.Print returns "Empty" for both parameters, indicating the expected behaviour of VB, which Verity seems unaware of. Even if I do supply the Call keyword, which requires the function parentheses, I can still optionally place a parameter in its own parentheses and thereby force it to act temporarily as a value parameter, e.g. Call FuncName (Param1, (Param2)) All this illustrates the amazing flexibility of Visual Basic. Maybe coming from the C oriented background of EXE, Verity expects obfuscation where there is none. He's right, that's perfectly clear. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,535 by admin 10/8/02 5:31:28 PM Reply	"Amazing flexibility" means... ... the ability to turn around and screw yourself in your own ass, apparently. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,545 by drewk 10/8/02 6:22:35 PM Reply	Not quote ROFL, but wiping the tears away Someone who has a VB6 box should scan it and PhotoChop that in as the slogan. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,573 by inthane-chan 10/8/02 7:23:05 PM Reply	Okay, now this is WEIRD. I decided, WTF, why not? Guess what appears to disable all screenshot capability until AFTER it's done launching? Now I want to find the resource bitmap and screw with it... End of world rescheduled for day after tomorrow. Something should probably be done. Please advise.
Post #55,575 by admin 10/8/02 7:26:29 PM Reply	Bwahahaha. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,592 by drewk 10/8/02 7:54:21 PM Reply	Devious, is what that is I wonder if all Microsoft apps do that. It'd be trivial, and unlikely anyone would ever notice and pin it down. Of course now that I'm curious ... === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,540 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 6:09:11 PM 10/8/02 6:18:13 PM Reply	Not to spread stereotypes... But I am strongly reminded of [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user?userid=145\|broomberg]'s [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=19224\|comment] about VB programmers who LOVE to code, They can't be any good, because if they were, they'd be smart enough to use a different language. Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead] Edited by ben_tilly Oct. 8, 2002, 06:18:13 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #55,543 by admin 10/8/02 6:18:19 PM Reply	Ding ding ding! And Ben wins the "First zIWT user to link to another user's profile in a post" award! Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,549 by drewk 10/8/02 6:33:23 PM Reply	Speaking of which ... You know what would be really cool? If you could link to a user with their username. Like instead of [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/new/showUser?userid=1\|this] if we could use [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/new/showUser?username=admin\|this]. If a user isn't currently active, you have to find one of their posts to look up their userid. (Okay, you don't, but the rest of us do.) === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,556 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 6:47:40 PM Reply	Easiest way to do it right now Click on posting statistics. Search for the user. Being able to reorder the posting statistics then jump to a particular alphabetical range would be more than good enough for me. (Of course at some point linking conventions would be nice, but that would require modifications to the database structure - one for the raw text entered by the user and one for the munged output.) Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,568 by drewk 10/8/02 7:07:18 PM Reply	That is handy Hadn't thought of that. Although the reason I first thought of this was that I went looking for someone who was way down in the posting statistics. Alphabetical sort would indeed simplify that. However ... I disagree that linking by username would take major database changes. Just change WHERE userID = '$userid' to WHERE userNick = '$usernick' in the query. Assuming the first part of the user profile page is to just look up the user info and the posting history is a second query. Otherwise this would take an additional query to look up the userID before doing the rest of the page. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,577 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 7:30:38 PM Reply	Erm, linking ne linking conventions What I mean by [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=939\|linking conventions] is that my fingers still expect [drewk] to come off as [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user?username=drewk\|drewk]. This is one of several kinds of markup which the HTML validation code could easily enough be modified to do and be controlled per user in your options (detecting URLs and making them into links is another), but that requires either slowing down rendering substantially or else the database change that I discussed. See [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=51735\|previous discussion] on this topic. Cheers, Ben PS Yes, when I [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=55169\|ask] for a feature, I will use it! :-) "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,581 by admin 10/8/02 7:39:33 PM Reply	Very effective request for a feature. Linking protocols may very well get done soon after that tour de force. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,607 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 8:45:55 PM Reply	That would be very nice Features are easier to think up and ask for when I have used them elsewhere and therefore know how I will react to them. :-) Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,571 by admin 10/8/02 7:18:58 PM Reply	Er... that works already. Except it looks more like [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/user?username=admin\|this]. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,587 by drewk 10/8/02 7:50:14 PM Reply	Okay, so which flavor of brilliance was that Was that the "anticipate the requests before they happen and implement them" one, or was that the "make the change so fast it's in place before the poor sod sees the page again" one? === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,593 by admin 10/8/02 7:54:58 PM Reply	More accurately: [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=55195\|The Ben Tilly Theory of "Retrograde Implementation"] ;-) Good idea though, so I Made It So. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,604 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 8:28:51 PM Reply	A theory, I might add... that was based on [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=33181\|observation]. Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #55,628 by admin 10/8/02 9:44:53 PM Reply	Very interesting... I've done that twice, and both times Drew was the brunt of the joke... ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,630 by ben_tilly 10/8/02 9:48:37 PM 10/9/02 8:26:03 AM Reply	Hey, well... He is a Marine. He can take it. :-) Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead] Edited by ben_tilly Oct. 8, 2002, 10:04:15 PM EDT Edited by ben_tilly Oct. 9, 2002, 08:26:03 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #55,632 by a6l6e6x 10/8/02 9:50:42 PM 10/8/02 9:51:34 PM Reply	Correction: Once a marine, always a marine. :) Alex The sun will set without thy assistance. -- The Talmud Edited by a6l6e6x Oct. 8, 2002, 09:51:34 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #55,635 by boxley 10/8/02 10:07:34 PM Reply	not a marine one of Uncle Sams Misguided Children and a force which I heartily respect as every member is a warrior fist class and then a cook or truck driver. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] "Therefore, by objective standards, the leading managers of the U.S. economy...are collectively, clinically insane." Lyndon LaRouche
Post #55,704 by drewk 10/9/02 8:13:52 AM Reply	And we usually capitalize it ... "marine" is an adjective Since we're making corrections here. And as for being the brunt of that one both times, I'll just take that to mean I suggested things that were not only clearly good ideas, but also fell within Scott's five minute threshhold. So there. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #55,719 by admin 10/9/02 9:04:38 AM Reply	Yep. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #55,997 by a6l6e6x 10/10/02 12:58:21 PM Reply	At ease, Marine! :) Alex The sun will set without thy assistance. -- The Talmud

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