Really? Differing definitions I suppose.

Post #54,437 by bepatient 10/2/02 9:54:08 AM Reply	Really? Differing definitions I suppose. Safety is regulated. Carriers found to be in violation are grounded. Have a problem with a carriers maintenance..how about making sure the FAA inspection teams do their job (a point made in both the Alaska and VJ situations...# of inspectors at these carriers was inadequate and far lower than at the >network< carriers. Also...the 2 airlines cited would both be considered >low cost< carriers...so you >could< draw the conclusion that we should not allow new market entrants...because they have statistically poorer maintenance. (nudge nudge) On the statistics...the chart is all post deregulation. The numbers are much worse further back in time (almost double) ================== On service. What is your definition of >superior< airline service...cashews instead of pretzels? Most people consider on time performance, price, and staff helpfulness as service provided...all areas where SW excel... If you want to add preferred seating, dinner, bigger seats, free drinks...well now you're talking 1st class on a network carrier...and if you want it...pay for it...or fly enough to get upgrades. I've had fine service provided to me by UA, US and NW all within the past 6 weeks. I get upgrades and I pay the higher prices. Allowing direct control of the staff at the point of service >will< improve the service levels provided. Example A - Employee is in a bad mood...knows that she cannot be fired for rudeness... Example B - Employee is in a bad mood...knows that if she is rude to people she will get fired... Which one do you think will be nicer to you? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #54,520 by Simon_Jester 10/2/02 3:23:47 PM Reply	Chuckle... Safety is regulated. Carriers found to be in violation are grounded. Have a problem with a carriers maintenance..how about making sure the FAA inspection teams do their job (a point made in both the Alaska and VJ situations...# of inspectors at these carriers was inadequate and far lower than at the >network< carriers. so Valujet weren't skimping on maintenance - they just didn't have enough FAA regulators to catch them? Yet, if Valujet wasn't skimping on maintenance, what could the FAA regulators have caught them for? this is getting surreal. (And it's no longer worth debating with you - if you want to claim that there aren't economic incentives for skimping on maintenance - so be it.) Most people consider on time performance, price, and staff helpfulness as service provided...all areas where SW excel... If you want to add preferred seating, dinner, bigger seats, free drinks...well now you're talking 1st class on a network carrier...and if you want it...pay for it...or fly enough to get upgrades. I've had fine service provided to me by UA, US and NW all within the past 6 weeks. I get upgrades and I pay the higher prices. I wish you well on purchasing your 1st class seats on Southwest and Delta Express.
Post #54,537 by bepatient 10/2/02 4:46:38 PM Reply	You seem to be missing points on purpose. No purpose debating the maintenance issue any further. Those 2 carriers skimped. There were incentives..and they were allowed to get away with it because the FAA was understaffed. They got caught. They were grounded. Neither case contributed to the crash as far as the NTSB was concerned. So we're debating a non-issue. The fact remains that air travel is safer post that pre-deregulation. It might be on a high currently...but that post deregulation high is still roughly half that of pre. As far as the 1st class seats (not purchased...FF levels allow it)...if I could fly SW or Delta Express I would...unfortunately they don't fly here...and they don't go where I need them to go. I suppose I could drive 2 hours to catch a plane that would connect me 3 times to get to my destination...but that wouldn't meet my service expectation...now would it? What...exactly...is >your< point...except to disagree with mine? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #54,549 by Simon_Jester 10/2/02 5:39:13 PM Reply	Fair enough - one last post Point: Your argument appears to be that since the crashes of ValuJet and Alaska were not maintenance related there isn't an issue. Merely up the number of inspectors and the problem goes away. My argument was that deregulation caused a economic incentive to skimp on maintenance and that some had tried. Period, that's it. That's all I was saying. Point: Your argument appears to be that safety was increased since deregulation. Frankly, this wasn't my argument and I shouldn't have gotten involved in it. I don't have the data or the specs to argue it (nor the desire). If you want to fly first class on SW or Delta Express, be my guest. But, last I checked, neither service offered it. And that is my ultimate point - and it has nothing to do with unions or airline mismanagement.
Post #54,579 by bepatient 10/2/02 9:21:28 PM Reply	Well that was easy. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #54,638 by drewk 10/3/02 9:17:11 AM Reply	Coming from this end, however ... [I]f I could fly SW or Delta Express I would...unfortunately they don't fly here...and they don't go where I need them to go. I suppose I could drive 2 hours to catch a plane that would connect me 3 times to get to my destination...but that wouldn't meet my service expectation...now would it? But coming from Cleveland to visit the folks in Philly, I'll take Southwest to Baltimore and rent a car there. I save enough on airfare to pay for the care for a three-day visit, which is more convenient than asking my parents to borrow the car. (Like staying with your parents for three days isn't already enough to make you feel like you're 16 again.) === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #54,657 by bepatient 10/3/02 11:24:08 AM Reply	If you're coming over a weekend... ...I would double-check...because usually don't pay more than $200 (usually less) to go in the opposite direction...SW usually is about 75 bucks cheaper from BWI...but CO matches. Dunno about you...but that difference would be made up by the rental and I'd be out the 4 hours. Also...sign up for US Airways eSavers...if you want to come spur of the moment sometime (I've done it)...those are usually about 140 (same as BWI) and Philly Cleveland is in there at least once a month. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #54,660 by drewk 10/3/02 11:32:23 AM Reply	Last time I came SW was $89 round-trip to BWI. Cheapest I could find direct was $330 from Continental. I wouldn't be surprised to find that round-trip from point A to point B isn't always the same price as point B to point A. === Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978\|Andrew Grygus]
Post #54,669 by bepatient 10/3/02 11:45:59 AM Reply	Also wouldn't be surprised to see... ...that SW has moved their price up a bit. They're starting to bank on customer loyalty...and raising fares between certain cities. If you book 2 weeks out...usually always CO and SW will match each other...and the Philly direct will usually be about $75-100 higher (except for those eSavers, but you can't really >plan< with them). You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #54,538 by bepatient 10/2/02 4:47:01 PM Reply	You seem to be missing points on purpose. No purpose debating the maintenance issue any further. Those 2 carriers skimped. There were incentives..and they were allowed to get away with it because the FAA was understaffed. They got caught. They were grounded. Neither case contributed to the crash as far as the NTSB was concerned. So we're debating a non-issue. The fact remains that air travel is safer post that pre-deregulation. It might be on a high currently...but that post deregulation high is still roughly half that of pre. As far as the 1st class seats (not purchased...FF levels allow it)...if I could fly SW or Delta Express I would...unfortunately they don't fly here...and they don't go where I need them to go. I suppose I could drive 2 hours to catch a plane that would connect me 3 times to get to my destination...but that wouldn't meet my service expectation...now would it? What...exactly...is >your< point...except to disagree with mine? You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]

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