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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Regional/World Conflict Forum / So it's all the union's fault, Bill?
Post #54,024
by jb4
Picture of jb4
9/30/02 5:19:18 PM
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New So it's all the union's fault, Bill?
How simplistic a strawman...and yet, United, the largest (or second largest, depending on whom you ask) is owned by its employees, all union stiffs. They're doing exactly as you demand: "Giving back" on work rules, salary, benefits, etc. And they're teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. How does that figger into your "equation"?

"They cannot manage themselves out of a wet paper sack." That's the root cause. Management, not union, is the problem here (And by your own words, too!)
jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
Post #54,037
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
9/30/02 6:04:04 PM
Reply
New No its not.
But it is a huge factor.

Management allowed the union labor to develop into the issue it has become. Check the workweek length and salary versus non union. It provides non union airlines with a distinct cost advantage...and much more control of the point of sale service (that you are complaining about).

Another problem is that carriers have forgotten about core competency...and thus feel compelled to staff huge call centers (filled with higher cost union employees) to compete against travel agencies who can, have and continue to provide much better customer service at hugely lower cost. There are many other examples of things the airlines insist on doing badly...instead of outsourcing to improve both cost and service.

Part of "managing" is managing the union relationships...and the carriers have failed miserably. The unions are well advised to give back...but they have so much to give to restore competitiveness that I don't think it can actually happen. I don't expect the union to do anything except try to make the best deal for its constituents...unfortunately sometimes the golden goose gets its head cut off in the process.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     The War on Airline Passengers - (Ashton) - (58) - Sept. 25, 2002, 06:01:14 AM EDT
         iwethey/iwethey account -NT - (boxley) - Sept. 25, 2002, 08:17:51 AM EDT
         This is why I won't be flying anytime soon. - (Simon_Jester) - (38) - Sept. 25, 2002, 08:52:53 AM EDT
             Wonder if any "Free Marketers" have noticed... - (mmoffitt) - (37) - Sept. 30, 2002, 08:37:02 AM EDT
                 Check the fares. - (bepatient) - (36) - Sept. 30, 2002, 11:08:13 AM EDT
                     um...I note that - (Simon_Jester) - (24) - Sept. 30, 2002, 12:38:02 PM EDT
                         Safety is regulated. - (bepatient) - (23) - Sept. 30, 2002, 02:31:24 PM EDT
                             Where is your tongue? - (jb4) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2002, 05:42:14 PM EDT
                                 Reality check. - (bepatient) - Sept. 30, 2002, 05:54:14 PM EDT
                             Lots of trouble with posting... - (Simon_Jester) - (12) - Oct. 1, 2002, 12:32:04 PM EDT
                                 Re: Lots of trouble with posting... - (bepatient) - (11) - Oct. 1, 2002, 10:03:46 PM EDT
                                     Sigh..bepatient...you're being obtuse. - (Simon_Jester) - (10) - Oct. 2, 2002, 09:14:35 AM EDT
                                         Really? Differing definitions I suppose. - (bepatient) - (9) - Oct. 2, 2002, 09:54:08 AM EDT
                                             Chuckle... - (Simon_Jester) - (8) - Oct. 2, 2002, 03:23:47 PM EDT
                                                 You seem to be missing points on purpose. - (bepatient) - (6) - Oct. 2, 2002, 04:46:38 PM EDT
                                                     Fair enough - one last post - (Simon_Jester) - (1) - Oct. 2, 2002, 05:39:13 PM EDT
                                                         Well that was easy. -NT - (bepatient) - Oct. 2, 2002, 09:21:28 PM EDT
                                                     Coming from this end, however ... - (drewk) - (3) - Oct. 3, 2002, 09:17:11 AM EDT
                                                         If you're coming over a weekend... - (bepatient) - (2) - Oct. 3, 2002, 11:24:08 AM EDT
                                                             Last time I came - (drewk) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2002, 11:32:23 AM EDT
                                                                 Also wouldn't be surprised to see... - (bepatient) - Oct. 3, 2002, 11:45:59 AM EDT
                                                 You seem to be missing points on purpose. - (bepatient) - Oct. 2, 2002, 04:47:01 PM EDT
                     So it's all the union's fault, Bill? - (jb4) - (1) - Sept. 30, 2002, 05:19:18 PM EDT
                         No its not. - (bepatient) - Sept. 30, 2002, 06:04:04 PM EDT
                     Organized labor killed the steel industry? - (Silverlock) - (2) - Oct. 2, 2002, 09:59:25 AM EDT
                         Compared to what it used to be... - (bepatient) - (1) - Oct. 2, 2002, 10:15:25 AM EDT
                             Got any trade-off numbers - (Ashton) - Oct. 2, 2002, 03:55:50 PM EDT
                     Super Savers and other nonsense. - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Oct. 2, 2002, 04:44:59 PM EDT
                         Re: Super Savers and other nonsense. - (admin) - (1) - Oct. 2, 2002, 05:11:04 PM EDT
                             Clarification. - (mmoffitt) - Oct. 2, 2002, 11:06:00 PM EDT
                         Route restrictions - (bepatient) - (2) - Oct. 2, 2002, 05:18:19 PM EDT
                             Little cities lost out. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Oct. 2, 2002, 11:09:09 PM EDT
                                 Concede loss of frequency. - (bepatient) - Oct. 3, 2002, 11:31:21 AM EDT
         I've always said current security is stoo-pid - (wharris2) - (7) - Sept. 25, 2002, 08:54:30 AM EDT
             Re: I've always said current security is stoo-pid - (deSitter) - (6) - Sept. 25, 2002, 12:26:58 PM EDT
                 Holy crud, you *admonished* them? - (wharris2) - (5) - Sept. 26, 2002, 11:22:31 PM EDT
                     Re: Holy crud, you *admonished* them? - (deSitter) - Sept. 26, 2002, 11:57:20 PM EDT
                     Re: Holy crud, you *admonished* them? - (jb4) - (3) - Sept. 27, 2002, 09:45:03 AM EDT
                         Re: Holy crud, you *admonished* them? - (wharris2) - (2) - Sept. 27, 2002, 01:30:03 PM EDT
                             Re: Holy crud, you *admonished* them? - (deSitter) - (1) - Sept. 27, 2002, 02:00:09 PM EDT
                                 Amen. -NT - (Ashton) - Sept. 27, 2002, 03:36:44 PM EDT
         Very Typical - (deSitter) - Sept. 25, 2002, 12:23:56 PM EDT
         Update - (deSitter) - Oct. 2, 2002, 11:19:34 AM EDT
         Re: The War on Airline Passengers (bad lang alert) - (wharris2) - (7) - Oct. 3, 2002, 06:34:50 PM EDT
             Let's hope we have some company - - (Ashton) - Oct. 3, 2002, 07:05:01 PM EDT
             Don't blame the airlines... - (bepatient) - (2) - Oct. 3, 2002, 08:24:44 PM EDT
                 We knew who the fed was / currently is run by - - (Ashton) - (1) - Oct. 3, 2002, 09:13:12 PM EDT
                     you have a firm grasp of the situation. -NT - (bepatient) - Oct. 3, 2002, 09:34:30 PM EDT
             Re: The War on Airline Passengers (bad lang alert) - (deSitter) - (2) - Oct. 4, 2002, 10:39:01 AM EDT
                 Re: The War on Airline Passengers (bad lang alert) - (wharris2) - Oct. 4, 2002, 10:52:50 AM EDT
                 Will let you know just after the vote on First Strike Now -NT - (Ashton) - Oct. 5, 2002, 04:14:42 AM EDT

I don't get no respect!
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