Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't recognize those Iraqi troops....

Post #45,165 by Brandioch 7/11/02 12:13:19 PM Reply	Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't recognize those Iraqi troops.... That just invaded Seattle. Have they invaded us? No. Are they any threat to us? No. But you still say that I don't have a better idea than to invade them. To put this in context......(something I know you disaprove of)..... We invaded Iraq before, when they had invaded Kuwait. We invaded Germany when Germany invaded other countries. I'm not seeing Iraq invading anyone.......... I'm not seeing any REASON for us to plan to invade Iraq......... Here's a better idea, WHY DON'T WE STAY OUT OF IRAQ UNLESS THEY DO SOMETHING TO US OR ONE OF OUR ALLIES? Is that too complicated for you? To put this in VERY SIMPLE TERMS....... We're talking about invading Iraq 'cause Bush doesn't have any other policy. His ONLY option to validate his presidency is to keep picking on weaker countries. Saddam is NOT A THREAT to us.
Post #45,205 by orion 7/11/02 3:55:53 PM Reply	Oh please Iraq is building up weapons of biological and nuclear destruction. How long before Iraq uses them to launch an attack? Also how many Kurds must die before we take action against Saddam? Saddam is like Hitler part 2 just waiting to happen. Scwartzkopf was right a decade ago, we should have removed Saddam from power, or else he would become a problem later on. Always listen to those high ranking Generals, they didn't get to that rank by pealing potatos and changing light bulbs their whole career. Iraq also is supposed to have terrorist camps, should we leave these alone as well? *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #45,210 by jb4 7/11/02 4:22:36 PM Reply	Oh please, yerself Always listen to those high ranking Generals, they didn't get to that rank by pealing potatos and changing light bulbs their whole career. No, they got to that rank by licking ass and playing politics their whole career[sic]. jb4 "I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
Post #45,216 by Brandioch 7/11/02 5:08:33 PM Reply	Think about that. Also how many Kurds must die before we take action against Saddam? Why do you believe the US should take action? Always listen to those high ranking Generals, they didn't get to that rank by pealing potatos and changing light bulbs their whole career. Those generals are the ones that lost Osama. I don't trust anything they say. Iraq also is supposed to have terrorist camps, should we leave these alone as well? So your claim is that Iraq is training terrorists to send against us? Again, my question is, what terrorist attack on the US has been from Iraq? I see a lot about al Queda. But those are Saudi's.
Post #45,219 by orion 7/11/02 5:16:06 PM Reply	They helped fund it at least in the USA if you pay someone to kill someone else then both people go to jail. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #45,229 by Brandioch 7/11/02 5:53:25 PM Reply	And that is what "patriotism" means today. Blind faith in the lies your government tells you. Pure hatred of "the enemy". And "the enemy" is whomever the government tells you it is. Don't think about whether your government is right or wrong BEFORE the attack. Attack first. Kill "the enemy". Beat him before he beats you. You KNOW he hates you. You KNOW it's just a matter of time before he kills YOU. You MUST strike now. If Saddam is funding the terrorists, and hosting the camps and such, why are all the attacks carried out by Saudi agents?
Post #45,235 by dmarker2 7/11/02 7:20:11 PM 7/11/02 8:36:46 PM Reply	Re: Oh please - littany of our own propaganda Sorry, but you are doing a wonderful job of repeating our propaganda at the expense of the facts. Is US going to attack Pakistan for having Nukes ? - where do we all think Osama Bin Laden might be right now ? - which country ? So we decide to attack Iraq for Nukes they 'might' have ??????? - no evidence, just somone's suspicion. No, that is not why US wants to attack Iraq. Iraq is a threat because of Saddam and big big imputable fact ....... SADDAM NATIONALISED IRAQ'S OIL INDUSTRY !!!!!! That is why US wants to attack - TO GET IT BACK !!!!!!. Put in place a pro US govt that allows the oil companies to resume their former assets. Stop the likes of Saddam from using Iraq's oil wealth to buy strength at the expense of western oil peace in the region. We had enough trouble with Gaddaffi when he went down the same path (using his countrys oil wealth to build a regional powerbase). So lets look at real politik vs buckets of hitlarian propaganda. Oil Oil Oil and our need to control its supply to protect our long term interests. The day we lose that control we will become the third world & the Arabs or whoever will call the global shots. Iraq is one link in that chain. Cheers Doug Edited by dmarker2 July 11, 2002, 08:36:46 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #45,209 by jb4 7/11/02 4:12:12 PM Reply	Hell, if they're gonna invade Seattle... .. let's just redirect them a bit farther south, then send them home with a hero's sendoff and the thanks from a grateful nation.... jb4 "I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
Post #45,220 by orion 7/11/02 5:19:01 PM Reply	It just might take another attack to convince some of you that this is a war on terrorism. What next/ Do we let the terrorists attack Seattle, how about New York again they still have some buildings standing? How about some more Anthrax Letters or another Dirty Bomb attempt? How long will it take before some of you understand that this is a war we are fighting, and that it is against terrorism to prevent more terrorist attacks from happening? It is an attack against those who funded the 9/11 attacks and helped Osama do them. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #45,227 by Ashton 7/11/02 5:46:15 PM Reply	So then.. "thrashing around" looks like Doing Something\ufffd ? Anthrax - last I (haven't) heard - No One has more than classic-rumors of who managed that neatly-timed diversion. It is Far from evident.. where the perp came from or his/her/their motivation (other than the obvious one of adding to confusion). BS ranges from a W-fan to Aristophanes. "Dirty Bomb" - the Comic Edition: Report of That 'arrest' was delayed some WEEKS, for its obvious aim of deflecting further attention - yet again - from the Ashcroft Covenant and other Admin bumblings and half-cocked gun discharges. There's a Huge gap between having the idea [possibly - there's nothing remotely like proof.. yet submitted] "in mind" and: accomplishing a fraction of the preparations. Thought crime now? I, for example: have the thought in mind of a beneficent object heading towards Redmond "from orbit". Shouldn't I be detained incommunicado while my thoughts are judged and the sentence carried out? (we don't have Trials anymore - at least not necessarily - in case your reading repertoire is severely limited, and You Didn't Know Who John Ashcroft Is). (Or the Millennium Patriot Act\ufffd) Do you really take Everything you read both literally AND as 'Truth'? One-at-a-Time? (It must be hell for you when.. next day "someone' claims the Opposite) Language was invented that men may disguise their thoughts from one another. \ufffd God 4777 BC All Rights Reserved
Post #45,228 by Brandioch 7/11/02 5:49:14 PM Reply	Enough of the bullshit. Name a recent attack on the US that has had an Iraqi terrorist in it. It just might take another attack to convince some of you that this is a war on terrorism. Nope. Just evidence that terrorism is coming out of Iraq. What next/ Do we let the terrorists attack Seattle, how about New York again they still have some buildings standing? Nope. Just identify the past attack that involved Iraqi terrorists. We don't need a new attack. But we do need a past attack. How about some more Anthrax Letters... Seems to be US in origin. Not Iraqi. ...or another Dirty Bomb attempt? Again, US operative DISCUSSING the POSSIBILITY of such an attack with SAUDI terrorists. No Iraqi. How long will it take before some of you understand that this is a war we are fighting, and that it is against terrorism to prevent more terrorist attacks from happening? As long as it takes you to identify the past attacks by Iraq. It is an attack against those who funded the 9/11 attacks and helped Osama do them. That attack was plotted by Saudi's and executed by Saudi's. Osama also has enough personal wealth to have paid for their plane tickets, training and living arrangements.
Post #45,232 by jb4 7/11/02 6:26:10 PM 7/11/02 6:27:04 PM Reply	War on Terrorism\ufffd, War on Drugs\ufffd, War on the Constitution... This is NOT a war on Anything. There has been no Declaration of War by the Congress, so lose that jingoistic bullshit. All your ravings could have been scripted by Ari Fleischer, for all the veracity contained within them. You parrot the company line well; expect your check in the mail. What this is is the Fascist script, being executed poorly by those not as well practiced in it as some of its predecessors. Every 2-bit tinhorn dictator from the middle ages through the '50s, '60s, '70s, ad nauseum has used the same ploy: redirect the attention of the vast unwashed to The Enemy\ufffd, thereby distracting them from their domestic plight, and having the happy side effect of solidifying thier popularity as they wrap themselves in their Flag and jingoistic sloganeering. As far as attacking Seattle, that would seem to suit Marlowe well, and if they happen to wipe out Redmond in the process...well........no great loss. All this chest thumping is wearing a bit thin. If we really wanted Osama, he'd have been dead within 72 hours, and we'd bee displaying is dead body on National Television\ufffd. Nah, He's much more usefull as a propaganda device alive. After all, we why should be be bothered investigating the Vice-Resident's possibly criminal machinations in Halliburton, when there's Evil\ufffd\ufffd to be fought? Stop shilling for these people, Norm. It's unbecoming... jb4 "I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch Edited by jb4 July 11, 2002, 06:27:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #45,300 by marlowe 7/12/02 1:11:43 PM Reply	We could have Osama in 72 hours? Your faith in our nation's ability far exceeds mine. And I'm the one who gets called the resident jingoist around here. Next you'll be saying Ashcroft can walk on water. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #45,311 by Ashton 7/12/02 3:09:22 PM Reply	Read for comprehension, please - I believe the man said, If we really wanted Osama, he'd have been dead within 72 hours. I believe this tense connotes via, he'd have been: In the past. At the start of this adventure full of bellicose sound, fury and troop movements. Had we Really wanted Osama initially ... we would not have left the "closing-in on him phase" to mercenaries from the same milieu. As we did. That he was bound to escape the sieve which that border IS: was as inevitable as ... the present efforts of this Admin to follow the script of Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here. That barn door could not be closed by (cheap, expendable) proxies THEN. Yes, 20/20: but that is also called - failure to employ intelligent tactics, failure to notice the evident probabilities and act accordingly. This may not 'prove' that it was intended that Osama remain at large, as convenient Straw Devil, for propaganda's sake - there rarely is such proof in inherently devious maneuvering we call war. But try to get the tenses straight. Ashton
Post #45,322 by marlowe 7/12/02 4:01:48 PM Reply	Oh, silly me. He's only saying our country had supernatural powers back last fall, not now. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Everything's a mystery until you figure out how it works. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #45,331 by Brandioch 7/12/02 4:33:06 PM Reply	Is that the best you have? Shall I refresh your memory? Manuel Noriega Grenada Oh, why bother. We have enough examples of where our military went in and accomplished its mission quickly. There's nothing supernatural about NOT being stupid. But it is amusing to see the apologists for the current regime blame "incompetence" for the continuing failure to capture/kill Osama. Our intelligence operations are sooooo good that they MISSED the planned attack.... -BUT- Quickly managed to identify Osama as the leader -BUT- Didn't have the resources to kill/capture him -THEN- Completely lost him and the rest of the operatives. -NOW- We don't know who will attack from where or when. BUT WE KNOW WHO THE BAD GUYS ARE! Or so those incompetant fools claim. Of course, Marlowe believes them.
Post #45,333 by jb4 7/12/02 4:34:09 PM Reply	So how many straw men ARE you going to construct? Supernatural powers? Don't make me laugh...we can't eve fuckin elect ourselves a President anymore. What we do have are Navy Seals, Rangers, Black Bag artists of every ilk, mercenaries, and Wet Boys. We have the means to deliver these people basically anywhere we want, and any time we want (more or less). If we wanted Osama (past imperfect, for those of you keeping score), we would have had him (subjunctive pluperfect, acting as the conditional; often known as subjunctive 2, again for the grammatically challenged); jb4 "I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
Post #45,371 by orion 7/12/02 6:41:06 PM Reply	Could have had Osama in the past he was offered to the Clinton Administration, but they rejected the offer. Had they have known about the 9/11 attacks back then, they would have took him. See how if you let the bad ones go that they come back to bite you in the ss later on? I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #45,372 by Brandioch 7/12/02 6:57:35 PM Reply	Slightly different then that. No, what happened is one of the officials in Afghanistan wanted US support to "remove" one of his political opponents and, in exchange, said official would provide the US with "information" concerning someone he said Osama visited with.
Post #45,522 by wharris2 7/14/02 5:23:29 AM Reply	I think that's wrong The "gift" of Osama was in his pre-Afghanistan days, when he was in Syria, I believe, or one of those countries. In Afghanistan, we've known (at times) where he's been, but not where he is. You can disagree with a lot (I disagree with most) of what Clinton did, but his cruise missile attack on their terrorist training camp is supposed to have missed by only several hours. Even today, we don't know if he is living or dead, and if living, where. He's been reported to have kidney or liver problems (I forget which) - hell, he might be in a clinic in Switzerland. Presumably, if he's alive, if he's not that sick, he's in some hidden fortified cave or hidden in plain sight ala the Sherlock Holmes short story in one of the Pakistani refugee camps. Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
Post #45,607 by jb4 7/15/02 9:10:25 AM Reply	The Heizenberg Uncertainty Principle, Osama division In Afghanistan, we've known (at times) where he's been, but not where he is. jb4 "I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
Post #45,319 by inthane-chan 7/12/02 3:37:49 PM Reply	Geography lesson. Redmond is to the EAST of Seattle, not to the south. We now return you to your regularly scheduled flame-fest. InThane - Now running Ashton rev 2.0

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