On a real motorcycle, you want to use the front brake

Post #441,034 by scoenye 2/28/22 8:03:00 AM 2/28/22 8:03:00 AM Reply	On a real motorcycle, you want to use the front brake Most of the stopping capacity is up front. Under braking, the load transfers to the front suspension, keeping that wheel planted. The rear becomes lighter and easier to lock. It depends on the type of bike (cruisers will keep the rear end on the road, sportbikes can easily lift it clean off) but not using the front will lead to a significantly longer stopping distance.
Post #441,037 by drook 2/28/22 12:30:52 PM 2/28/22 12:30:52 PM Reply	Grey area Not the physics, you're absolutely right about that. But if someone is starting from Flintstones foot brakes just getting them to use the real ones is a step up, and the consequences of locking up a rear brake are much lower. In a controlled environment with a competent teacher and a willing student, you're absolutely right to focus on the front brake. It's better long term, because I've seen guys who have been riding for 20+ years who won't touch the front brake for anything - these are the same guys who don't believe in counter-steering - and it's better not to learn bad habits that you then have to unlearn. -- Drew
Post #441,041 by scoenye 2/28/22 5:17:01 PM 2/28/22 5:17:01 PM Reply	Key part is the last sentence You can stop using only the rear brake. But if there is more in the way than a stop sign, that is where the risk of locking up the rear comes in. The way the brakes are engineered, the only way to lock the fronts is to snap them shut. Once the load is transferred to the front, you can squeeze the handle as hard as you can. The front end will start to wag near locking up so you do get feedback as to when to let up. The rear brake does not have that. The only feedback you get there is when the rear wheel tries to overtake the front :-/ You are definitely right on the competent instructor. That is an absolute life saver.
Post #441,042 by drook 2/28/22 8:57:20 PM 2/28/22 8:57:20 PM Reply	On a motorcycle, yes On a fat tire electric bike, I suspect the combination of high speed, good traction, and light weight mean an unintentional stoppie is a possibility. -- Drew
Post #441,040 by CRConrad 2/28/22 4:43:20 PM 2/28/22 4:43:20 PM Reply	On a bicycle too. That "Use the rear brake!" BS is... Well, BS.
Post #441,045 by crazy 3/1/22 12:34:17 AM 3/1/22 12:34:17 AM Reply	I don't claim to be competent My dad locked his front brake and flipped. This is the only experience I have to draw upon. You want to fly out here and teach her come on over.
Post #441,046 by drook 3/1/22 8:44:06 AM 3/1/22 8:46:53 AM Reply	Dad was on a motorcycle or bicycle? Going over the front on a motorcycle is hard. Or maybe I'm unusual, because my instinct when the front really dives is to back off the brakes. If your panic response is to grab it harder that could do it. Here's a tip: Never put all four fingers on the brake. That easy you can still keep a hold of the handlebar while letting off the brakes. I've seen lots of bikes that have a 2-finger brake lever to enforce this behavior. -- Drew Edited by drook March 1, 2022, 08:46:53 AM EST Expand All History
Post #441,049 by crazy 3/1/22 9:30:24 PM 3/1/22 9:30:24 PM Reply	Bicycle. My dad was way too careful to ever ride a motorcycle It looks like my next toy will be quad runner. I still want to get to the bottom of the beach and back up without too much effort. But it looks like I'll need gasoline for that.
Post #441,062 by CRConrad 3/3/22 3:02:10 AM 3/3/22 3:02:10 AM Reply	Can't see why a flight should be necessary. Are you saying... ...that she is (and you are) incapable of understanding "Squeeze hard (but not too fucking idiot hard), on the front brake."? The limits of "too fucking idiot hard" shouldn't be too difficult to explore. Just do some practice runs on a stretch of flat unimpeded road and squeeze harder each time, until you notice the signs Sven pointed out, then back off a smidge on the squeezing. But, sure, buy me a ticket and I'll be glad to pop over and teach the both of you. I've never been to America. :-) -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #441,070 by crazy 3/4/22 12:37:41 AM 3/4/22 12:37:41 AM Reply	Seriously? I'll fly you in for the fun of it. Send me an email. Last name dot First name@gmail.com. have you not figured it out yet? I'll give more information.
Post #441,072 by CRConrad 3/4/22 3:45:39 AM 3/4/22 3:45:39 AM Reply	"Figured it out" -- you mean your name? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I remember. And, hey, thanks for the offer! :-) Yeah, I'd love to see America some time... I think I must be about the same age my parents were when they went there. And sometime in the next three years would seem the best moment for it, before you elect your next Trump and sink totally back into the Dark Ages; who knows if you'll ever emerge from that (at least in our lifetimes)[1]. But I'd like to bring my family, and take them for a longer trip around the country etc, which would probably take some advanced scheduling around jobs, school, and compulsory military duty. Plus the Corona situation could well stabilise a little before we make any travel plans at all... So probably not this year, and possibly not the next-- damn, this seems to leave just late 2023 - early 2024? Scheisse! But honestly, just tell her to practice using only (or at least, overwhelmingly mainly) the front brake. A few 60-yard runs back and forth on a flat stretch of asphalt should suffice to get a feel for it. And if she still wants in-person help after that, maybe a Zoom session? :-) ___ [1]: Have you read Neal Stephenson's Fall (or, Dodge in Hell)? The first of his novels that I was overall disappointed in; the second half / last third or thereabouts was... Off, somehow. Weird, longwinded, boring. But still, being a Stephenson, overall the book still had a lot to speak for it. Particularly the bit (just before it goes bad IIRC) where a bunch of young people take a road trip across the north-western part of the country, through "Facebook America". Can't tell if it was more hilarious than scary, or the other way around. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #441,078 by crazy 3/4/22 9:44:45 AM 3/4/22 9:44:45 AM Reply	Haven't read that one I read many of his books since snow crash in the mid-80s. And then he basically invented cybercurrency.
Post #441,093 by CRConrad 3/5/22 3:10:37 AM 3/5/22 3:10:37 AM Reply	It's a sequel, so no use reading it before the first one. (Which was really good.)

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