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New How do you decide if something that *feels* wrong actually is?
In the movie Leap of Faith, Steve Martin plays a preacher in a travelling tent revival show. It's made very clear in the first scene that he doesn't believe anything he's saying, and uses every trick in the book to cold read his audience and convince them he's speaking - and healing - directly for God.

In the middle, the local sheriff confronts the preacher about conning money from people who can't afford it. (Video is messed up in the middle, but the dialogue is there.) The preacher says that he puts on a good show, for less than it would cost for the same production in New York, and people leave with a bit of hope they didn't have before.

He knows he's a con, I know he's a con, but I can't figure out a good counter-argument. (I'll leave aside the fake healing.) If he's providing hope, and they leave feeling better and more optimistic and able to carry on, does it matter if he doesn't believe in what he's saying?
--

Drew
New I haven't seen that one.
But I do remember it coming out. I just read the story on Wikipedia and even just that is thought-provoking. (Also strikes me as a perfect role for Steve Martin.)

Maybe your question comes down to is it right to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Maybe it is...

Wade.
New Yes, he was great in it
A natural showman who is able to play sincere with the best of them.
--

Drew
New billly sunday or huey long, any more questions?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Expand Edited by boxley July 21, 2021, 11:35:38 PM EDT
New Yeah, several
Maybe you can tell me how they address my question?
--

Drew
New Re: Yeah, several
"He knows he's a con, I know he's a con, but I can't figure out a good counter-argument. (I'll leave aside the fake healing.) If he's providing hope, and they leave feeling better and more optimistic and able to carry on, does it matter if he doesn't believe in what he's saying?"

watch the movie Billy Sunday or better yet the kids movie "sing"

My answer to your question is why would it matter to you? If it doesnt cost you money, time or energy why would you care?

If a crime is committed (financial shenanigans, rape etc) then prosecute otherwise why is it your business?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I didn't ask if it was illegal, I asked if it was wrong
I didn't say I think it's illegal, though fraud can be. What I asked was if it was wrong.
--

Drew
New I got that
I was saying that if there is financial or crimes against people, it is wrong, illegal, and should be adjudicated.

I do not think it is wrong for a conniving piece of crap to practice his deception upon the gullible. At most I would note it to an audience member and move on. Karma will fix it for both parties or so I would like to believe.

Right or wrong is a personal matter unless it affects me or mine, then I get to weigh in full speed ahead.

Just my personal opinion, neither right or wrong
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I do not think it is wrong for a conniving piece of crap to practice his deception upon the gullible
Idiocy like that gave America the Trump presidency.

Sheesh, man, you're physically incapable of holding a single non-despicable opinion, aren't you?
--

   Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Apparently Still Knows Fucking Everything


Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
New I dunno, I think you are ok most of the time
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Bah -- "Flattery will get you anywhere" is also kind of a despicable opinion! :-)
New "To thine own self be true..."
Humans supposedly can do introspection and figure out how to live with themselves. After that, it's "what can I get away with" for some...

NoSweatShakespeare:

[...]

The lessons in Polonius’ ‘To thine own self be true’ speech are generally thought of as good advice, which is why parts of it are so often quoted. After all, what could be more sound than advice which counsels one to be careful before speaking out? Or if you avoid lending or borrowing money you are more likely to keep your friends. And, of course, being true to oneself is a noble aspiration.

Aside from the content of the speech, what makes these words so interesting is the fact that they come from Polonius. In the first place, Polonius is a bore, and all of the wonderful advice is probably not even being heard by his children as they know how he goes on about everything. In the staging of Hamlet the other actors on stage with Polonius – his son, Laertes and daughter, Ophelia – often stand behind him and make mocking gestures as he speaks the words.

As well as being a bore, Polonius is an unpleasant piece of work. Immediately after making this speech, he sends someone to Paris to spy on Laertes as he enjoys his student life. Polonius also spies on his daughter, sets her up for entrapment, interferes with her romantic life, and ultimately contributes to her suicide.

Polonius meets a sticky end while spying on Hamlet in a confidential conversation with his mother. Hamlet hears someone hiding behind a curtain and stabs whoever it is. That turns out to be Polonius.

Coming from Polonius, this advice to be true to oneself is pompous, hypocritical, and empty. It is a tribute to Shakespeare that he can produce a speech that is quoted for four hundred years as definitive wisdom about human behaviour although it comes from a character who is a disreputable and hypocritical empty vessel.

The phrase has evolved, and in recent years ‘being true to yourself’ has become a common, fashionable term. It’s used to mean not worrying about pleasing other people, or living by someone else’s rules or standards, but rather living as your natural self, without compromise.


Interesting guy, that Billy Shakes.

Cheers,
Scott.
     How do you decide if something that *feels* wrong actually is? - (drook) - (11)
         I haven't seen that one. - (static) - (1)
             Yes, he was great in it - (drook)
         billly sunday or huey long, any more questions? -NT - (boxley) - (7)
             Yeah, several - (drook) - (6)
                 Re: Yeah, several - (boxley) - (5)
                     I didn't ask if it was illegal, I asked if it was wrong - (drook) - (4)
                         I got that - (boxley) - (3)
                             I do not think it is wrong for a conniving piece of crap to practice his deception upon the gullible - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                 I dunno, I think you are ok most of the time -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Bah -- "Flattery will get you anywhere" is also kind of a despicable opinion! :-) -NT - (CRConrad)
         "To thine own self be true..." - (Another Scott)

This is all frightfully unimportant, but since when has that been a reason not to post?
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