what a blatant hypocrite!

Post #435,675 by lincoln 8/14/20 3:48:40 PM 8/14/20 3:48:40 PM Reply	what a blatant hypocrite! Now we know why Donald Trump said that Florida's mail-in voting is 'beautiful' while continually attacking the entire concept of absentee voting for the rest of us. President Trump, whose campaign has tried to thwart mail-in voting, has requested an absentee ballot that will allow him to cast a Florida primary ballot via the U.S. Postal Service. https://crooksandliars.com/2020/08/donnie-melania-request-mail-ballots Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #435,677 by scoenye 8/14/20 5:03:38 PM 8/14/20 5:03:39 PM Reply	Probably using his own sorting machine too... https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/postal-service-sorting-machines/index.html The US Postal Service plans to remove hundreds of high-volume mail-processing machines from facilities across the country, leading some postal workers to fear they may have less capacity to process mail during election season. Documents obtained by CNN indicate 671 machines used to organize letters or other pieces of mail are slated for "reduction" in dozens of cities this year. The agency started removing machines in June, according to postal workers.
Post #435,680 by Ashton 8/14/20 5:41:20 PM 8/14/20 5:41:20 PM Reply	'Impeachment' ..a disused word about to be removed from the O.E.D. But I trust that Nancy P. has to-hand some wrench [wretch?] to throw into that Machine--once McConnell has chosen the honorable way out: _____ {sob} / {Yeay!} Pick one.
Post #435,698 by mmoffitt 8/17/20 9:01:52 AM 8/17/20 9:01:52 AM Reply	She's calling them back. The House is expected to vote as early as Saturday, Aug. 22, on a proposal to block the Trump administration’s plan for overhauling the Postal Service. This is weeks earlier than Pelosi and the House Democratic leaders had originally planned to return to Washington. But the revised House schedule comes amid a national uproar over a crisis within the Postal Service ahead of a national election that will see an unprecedented number of mail-in ballots. Democrats have grown increasingly alarmed that Trump is using the coronavirus pandemic to force service cutbacks at USPS ahead of Nov. 3. Democrats allege Trump’s appointee to lead the Postal Service, Louis DeJoy, has overseen substantial operational changes to the agency that has led to backlogs and service interruptions — an immense concern as millions of Americans prepare to receive and return their ballots through the mail. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/16/pelosi-house-vacation-postal-service-396627 Obvious Caveat with the current crop: Even if this bill becomes law (highly unlikely imo), when has the law ever stopped this administration? Game.Set.Match.Fascists. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #435,702 by boxley 8/17/20 3:16:01 PM 8/17/20 3:16:13 PM Reply	hard to figure the whole issue with mail in ballots go to the local walmart old people are lined up crotch to ass at every checkout counter, casinos same at every slot. Young people when they are not protesting in large crowds with no social distancing are hanging out at parties with no social distancing. Congress is worried that these same people can't line up and vote? The people who are careful, masked and social distance can figure it out to make sure our vote counts. Think the ballot by mail is a manufactured crisis by trump exacerbated by the congress. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman Edited by boxley Aug. 17, 2020, 03:16:13 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #435,703 by drook 8/17/20 3:28:43 PM 8/17/20 3:28:43 PM Reply	No go to the local walmart SOME old people are lined up crotch to ass at every checkout counter, casinos same at every slot. SOME young people when they are not protesting in large crowds with no social distancing are hanging out at parties with no social distancing. Fixed it for you. Congress is worried that these same people can't line up and vote? No, Democrats in congress are worried that these same people will line up and vote, while the people you don't see in those lines - because they're staying home - are going to keep staying at home and request mail-in ballots. The people who are careful, masked and social distance can figure it out to make sure our vote counts. Unless they're staying home because they're immunocompromised, or have mobility issues, or aren't at casinos and parties unless they're employees at them, in which case they are wearing masks. Think the ballot by mail is a manufactured crisis by trump exacerbated by the congress. Tell that to voters in Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington State, where all voting is postal. -- Drew
Post #435,705 by Ashton 8/17/20 5:44:47 PM 8/17/20 5:44:47 PM Reply	✓✓ (GMTA)
Post #435,707 by boxley 8/17/20 7:27:58 PM 8/17/20 7:27:58 PM Reply	Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, and Washington State, where all voting is postal and those states have had tremendous issues? first I have heard of that. If it works well there why will it break elsewhere? Before clown trump, us mail service told election folks that it takes a week to deliver a ballot and another week to send it back plus time in hand of voter. Electoral officials in states that do not have well thought out mail in ballot schemes have trouble understanding logical deadlines. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,708 by drook 8/17/20 10:31:20 PM 8/17/20 10:31:20 PM Reply	Are you stupid or pretending? If it works well there why will it break elsewhere? What's this thread about? Oh, right! They're breaking the Post Office on purpose, in order to cause problems. They couldn't find any evidence that there were problems with postal voting, so they're damn sure going to create some. -- Drew
Post #435,711 by boxley 8/18/20 11:23:40 AM 8/18/20 11:23:40 AM Reply	hardly please explain how you would run the post office without running a deficit. So far they have stopped OT. removed sorting machines that are underutilized ditto with some post bins. How is that going to impede mass mailings to be delivered to election sites? My mutual of omaha and other crap mail has no issues getting thu. So far my daily paper WSJ is delivered on time daily via the post office? The whining about mail in ballots by the repos is about 3rd party interference. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,714 by malraux 8/18/20 11:53:02 AM 8/18/20 11:53:02 AM Reply	Must be nice. USPS deliveries up here are all kinds of messed up. We've had to repeatedly chase down packages that were going to the wrong PO or just sitting somewhere. Removing underutilized sorting machines just before they will probably need to be utilized can't wait until after the election and has to suddenly be done now? Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,719 by boxley 8/18/20 2:42:06 PM 8/18/20 2:42:06 PM Reply	must be a regional thing, of course I am not in a high density urban setting "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,720 by malraux 8/18/20 2:43:49 PM 8/18/20 2:43:49 PM Reply	Our mail comes via Pontiac Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,722 by boxley 8/18/20 2:59:16 PM 8/18/20 2:59:16 PM Reply	pontiac concerns, apparently pontiac sorts a buttton of mail apparently no one checked with the post office before setting mailing deadlines https://www.clickondetroit.com/decision-2020/2020/08/15/usps-cannot-guarantee-michigans-mail-in-votes-will-arrive-in-time-to-be-counted/ The Postal Service sent Benson’s office a letter that said Michigan’s vote-by-mail laws are “incongruous” with USPS standards and that the ballot deadlines create a mismatch with delivery. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,726 by malraux 8/18/20 3:18:51 PM 8/18/20 3:18:51 PM Reply	They took 2 sorting machines from Pontiac The bar code printing machines in Detroit were running at capacity. They're adding shifts to handle the volume and taking machines away at the same time. Doesn't seem reasonable. They're also talking about removing parcel handling machinery which seems ridiculous on the face of it given the upcoming holiday season on top of the much higher package delivery volume from the pandemic. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,730 by drook 8/18/20 3:30:09 PM 8/18/20 3:30:09 PM Reply	Stop lying The machines they're taking away were underutilized. Boxley said so. WDYHASM? -- Drew
Post #435,731 by malraux 8/18/20 3:32:55 PM 8/18/20 3:32:55 PM Reply	To be fair, that's what the union reps are saying. But having seen a direct effect on our mail delivery here, I don't doubt it. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,728 by drook 8/18/20 3:28:36 PM 8/18/20 3:28:36 PM Reply	You know who is? Likely Democratic voters. I'm sure that's a coincidence. -- Drew
Post #435,715 by drook 8/18/20 11:58:42 AM 8/18/20 12:02:57 PM Reply	By not sabotaging it Eliminate the pre-funding of their retirement and the bulk of their deficit goes away. Allow them to provide additional services that they are currently prohibited from because it competes with private enterprise. But most importantly, stop expecting it to turn a profit. Have you asked how to run the military without running a deficit? No, because it's a service that the government provides. The fact that the USPS does as well as it does financially is a huge success story for government services, which is why Republicans are so determined to destroy it. [edit] Oh, and Mike just reminded me: I'm glad your mail has been coming through. Do you not believe the reports from actual USPS employees of mail being left on the floor or the loading docks? Do you know that the sorting machines are actually "underutilized" and not in fact needed for the entirely predicted spike in volume when elections come around? You know postal volume is seasonal, right? -- Drew Edited by drook Aug. 18, 2020, 12:02:57 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #435,718 by boxley 8/18/20 2:41:20 PM 8/18/20 2:41:20 PM Reply	Re: By not sabotaging it Eliminate the pre-funding of their retirement and the bulk of their deficit goes away. Eh? Who mandates that and good luck getting the unions to sign off on that pretty sure its not republicans mandating that Allow them to provide additional services that they are currently prohibited from because it competes with private enterprise. blocked by the owners of the democrats and republicans But most importantly, stop expecting it to turn a profit. Think most would settle for it not running such high deficits "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,724 by malraux 8/18/20 3:04:08 PM 8/18/20 3:04:08 PM Reply	Re: By not sabotaging it Eh? Who mandates that and good luck getting the unions to sign off on that pretty sure its not republicans mandating that Republican law from 2006. There's a proposed law to repeal it that has been blocked by Republicans. It wasn't unions that added the health care funding, it was GW Bush who threatened a veto if the language wasn't in there. The health care funding is something like $60B out of the $160B shortfall since 2007, so definitely not the whole problem... but it's a very large chunk of the problem. The USPS is prohibited by law from charging less than cost for packages, so it's not Amazon either. The main problem as I understand things is personnel costs, the decline in First Class mail, and requirements around where the health care money is invested. Some possible fixes: 1) Remove the ridiculous health care funding and restrictions for something more like the rest of the government's approaches 2) Allow it to stop delivering paper mail 6 days a week. Most of it is advertising circulars and other crap. A small price hike here (currently limited to the CPI) would help. 3) Allow more competitive services 4) Forgive the present debt (something like $10B) so they can invest in capital improvements instead of just servicing debt and health care costs 5) Fix the personnel cost issue, and I suspect this is where most of the rancor will happen. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,732 by drook 8/18/20 3:33:09 PM 8/18/20 3:33:09 PM Reply	Re: By not sabotaging it Think most would settle for it not running such high deficits Based on what evidence? They've been saying openly for decades that they want to privatize it. They want it to fail so that they can. -- Drew
Post #435,721 by crazy 8/18/20 2:58:26 PM 8/18/20 2:58:26 PM Reply	You don't cripple them with the 75-year pension requirement That's how. Tell me any other business that has that requirement. Especially one that's required by the Constitution. Every step that new PO has taken has been to cripple them. I've worked in that industry for many many years and let me tell you the new postmaster did a top-level shuffle and then made sure he could go trash it. Junk mail paid for the PO and would indefinitely and pay it well. The PO was running on a good cash flow good reserve basis. And then the Republicans decided to cripple it with the pension requirement. How stupid are you to immediately buy the line underutilized or poorly utilized machines were yanked. Those machines run the length of a goddamn building and can be yanked in 10 minutes but could take months to put back together. They crippled that workflow. They're setting up a situation where initially delayed mail will start to backlog. Medicine is going to be backlogged. Remember the old Santa Claus movies where all the mail got stacked up. It's going to start looking like that.
Post #435,723 by boxley 8/18/20 3:00:38 PM 8/18/20 3:00:38 PM Reply	got a link to show that the pension requirement was a republican requirement? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,727 by crazy 8/18/20 3:22:48 PM 8/18/20 3:22:48 PM Reply	What's the point? It's well known and easy but you'll just ignore whatever is important.
Post #435,729 by malraux 8/18/20 3:30:07 PM 8/18/20 3:30:07 PM Reply	Re: got a link to show that the pension requirement was a republican requirement? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Accountability_and_Enhancement_Act The statement is linked to here: https://roanoke.com/news/dan_casey/casey-the-most-insane-law-by-congress-ever/article_3c33d5a1-5fd3-5c01-b5bb-5c75046f48f4.html As a statement from former Virginia Rep. Tom Davis, the bill's sponsor: Who sponsored this cockamamie legislation? It was former Rep. Tom Davis, a Republican from northern Virginia who served in Congress from 1995 until 2008. He’s now a Washington lobbyist for Deloitte, a huge accounting and consulting company. Last week I reached out to Davis to learn how and why this happened. One thing you should know is that the bill was bipartisan. The cosponsors were Reps. Henry Waxman, D- Calif., Danny Davis D-Ill. and John McHugh, R-New York. The surprising thing I heard from Davis was that he agrees the future-funding retirement provision was crazy. That was never in the original legislation, he said. Instead, the 90-page bill made a bunch of bureaucratic changes, few of which the average American would give a hoot about. It also placed a temporary moratorium on rate increases and established a less cumbersome system under which rates could be increased moving forward. Somewhat ironically, the bill was intended to help the Postal Service be more competitive for the future, Davis said. But late in the game, the Bush White House threatened to veto it unless Congress added the future-funding-for-retirees provision. Congress went along because at the time it seemed like it was a better option than having the entire bill defeated, Davis said. “That was the cost of getting the bill through,” Davis said. The Bush administration used the revenue it gained to help balance the budget. Appa Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,733 by drook 8/18/20 3:36:20 PM 8/18/20 3:36:20 PM Reply	Now Box admits he was wrong in 3 ... 2 ... oh who am I kidding? -- Drew
Post #435,735 by boxley 8/18/20 3:48:30 PM 8/18/20 3:48:30 PM Reply	thank you, acknowledged "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,736 by malraux 8/18/20 4:05:38 PM 8/18/20 4:05:38 PM Reply	Seems less like deliberate sabotage and more like convenient target for something unrelated Although the resistance to fixing that part since it was enacted, less so. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,743 by boxley 8/18/20 9:41:12 PM 8/18/20 9:41:12 PM Reply	at a glance it looks like a union members wet dream, why I thought it wasnt republican "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,738 by crazy 8/18/20 4:53:13 PM 8/18/20 4:53:13 PM Reply	Receipt of information or that you are wrong?
Post #435,744 by boxley 8/18/20 9:41:37 PM 8/18/20 9:41:37 PM Reply	both why? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,749 by crazy 8/19/20 8:30:13 AM 8/19/20 8:30:13 AM Reply	Because you make silly arguments based on a glance As long as it fits with your worldview assumptions. Often. And double and triple down without actually researching. And this is different from the box I knew 10 years ago. The vast majority of people in this board are smart experienced people with reasonable world views. When their worldviews are unreasonable they usually at least have really good explanations for how they arrived at them. And they pretty much argue with you all the time over stupid shit. Stuff that is oh so obvious to the rest of us. Are we all morons?
Post #435,740 by Ashton 8/18/20 6:19:15 PM 8/18/20 6:19:15 PM Reply	SIMPLEST factoid of which you seem (also) emotionally-unaware The USPS is a Federally mandated SERVICE, not a fucking Profit-making bizness add-on. It was mandated via the likes of bloody Founding Fathers LIke Ben Franklin--who recognized the indispensability of Communication amidst ALL (in this new 'Nation') DUH. You ceaselessly cavil via all the false-comparos as enter your so-oft febrile brain, daring all to do the homework. Yet--it doesn't get you to cease the regular employment of RWNJ-Mis-Dis-Agitprop, upon which you seem to feed. If it Acts like a Troll, eats Troll-food incessantly, pointedly skips the grammar idea, saving some expensive space..? (Hardly ever just. saying.: I really fucked-up this train of non-thought; SORRY! ..What IS It? Clue: agit-prop works only on people who breathe-through-mouth) Wrong venue. Or, just pig-headed?
Post #435,745 by boxley 8/18/20 9:43:32 PM 8/18/20 9:43:32 PM Reply	The USPS is a Federally mandated SERVICE yes it is it is not a sinecure for the inept and related to those in power altho it has been treated as such by many over the years. It requires good stewardship which appears to be lacking "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,746 by boxley 8/18/20 10:21:18 PM 8/18/20 10:21:18 PM Reply	some good ideas on how to enable better stewardship of the postal service (longish read) https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/april-may-june-2019/congress-is-sabotaging-your-post-office/ It is, after all, one of the most remarkable physical systems ever created. With arms in every single zip code, from Key West, Florida, to Utqiagvik, Alaska, its expansiveness opens up a world of opportunity. In many American communities, the post office was historically called the “federal building,” and it served as a one-stop shop for numerous governmental needs. (Tellingly, FDR wanted Social Security to be administered through posts to assure its accessibility.) In smaller towns and cities, for example, the post office was a focal point for immigrant registration, military recruitment, and distributing income tax forms. There is no reason that America’s post offices can’t again provide a variety of important governmental functions. Indeed, today’s post offices should have all tax forms readily available. The government should even consider stationing IRS adjutants at post offices around tax time, which would ease what is, for many Americans, one of the most stressful times of the year. The Postal Service could also expand on the passport assistance it already provides. Many post offices take passport photos and process some first-time applicants and renewals. Often, this is by appointment only. I believe that post offices should offer full passport services to any American who walks through the doors. In addition to serving as a gateway to America’s bureaucracy, the post could serve as a door to the rest of the world. State governments should take advantage of America’s postal infrastructure as well, in particular by expanding the use of vote by mail, which when done right is proven to increase political participation. Turning mailboxes into voting booths would therefore be good for the engagement of our citizenry. The post could further weave itself into American democracy by allowing congressional representatives to station their district staff right in community post offices. But perhaps the most promising service that post offices could provide is banking. Today, sixty-eight million Americans, more than a quarter of U.S. households, lack access to adequate banking services. Many are shut out by high fees tied to minimum balances, overdrafts, direct deposit penalties, and ATM charges. As a result, they are left to unregulated payday lenders and check cashers that level obscene annual percentage rates. The postal inspector general found that underbanked Americans spend $89 billion each year on financial fees. This closed system shackles families to poverty, further cementing the economic inequality tearing our country apart. Postal branches could offer a range of banking services—including savings accounts, deposit services, and even small lending—at a 90 percent discount compared to what predatory lenders provide, according to a report commissioned by the USPS inspector general. This would give many families an average savings of $2,000 a year while putting nearly $9 billion into the post’s coffers. Postal banking could even unite liberals and Trump supporters. Rural communities are America’s most bank starved: 90 percent of zip codes lacking a bank or credit union lie in rural areas. Bank branches are also sparse in poorer urban areas, and 46 percent of Latino and 49 percent of African American households are unbanked. The Postal Service is well positioned to help both communities. Some 59 percent of post offices lie in “bank deserts,” or places where there is no more than one branch. Where financial institutions close their doors to these communities, post offices remain open to anyone who walks inside. And this change wouldn’t even need the approval of Congress, requiring only the postmaster general’s consent. Pilot programs could then begin immediately—including in places like 194 Ward Street in my own city of Paterson. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,750 by crazy 8/19/20 8:44:58 AM 8/19/20 8:44:58 AM Reply	So you googled and read for a bit As my kids would say: oh look a squirrel! Indicating total lack of attention other than the current distraction. Fine I'll go with it. Do you believe the current administration with the current postmaster general should be allowed to have their hands on to their own personal banking system that they control?
Post #439,128 by CRConrad 5/18/21 8:55:50 AM 5/18/21 8:55:50 AM Reply	So, are y'all proud of how well you danced to his Gish Gallop tune there?
Post #439,129 by CRConrad 5/18/21 8:59:22 AM 5/18/21 8:59:22 AM Reply	Still waiting for official reply: Why'd Norm & Bryce get the treatment they did, but not the BOx?
Post #439,131 by crazy 5/18/21 12:38:54 PM 5/18/21 12:38:54 PM Reply	Re: Still waiting for official reply: Why'd Norm & Bryce get the treatment they did, but not the BOx Well one of them posted violent images of the admin being shot. The other was in an obvious bipolar depressive downward spiral and was trying to take everyone else with, and then was hostile and dangerous sounding. Box ain't any of these things. He can be an exasperating a****** sometimes but not nearly as much as one as you. And we love you too.
Post #439,133 by malraux 5/18/21 3:01:01 PM 5/18/21 3:01:01 PM Reply	Yeah I kinda draw the line at implied violence and off-the-hinge stalking/harassment Box just likes being contrarian any place there's room for discussion, and sometimes just for the hell of it. He's not off building obsessive Wikis about us or sending the heads of dead animals in the mail (no one did this, just a f'r instance). Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #439,127 by CRConrad 5/18/21 8:48:03 AM 5/18/21 8:48:03 AM Reply	A: Yes, he is.
Post #435,704 by malraux 8/17/20 3:41:22 PM 8/17/20 3:41:22 PM Reply	Absentee ballot requests are way up this year. I don't have the exact figure at hand, but it was something like 2 or 3X -- 20% Republican, 70% Democrat, way more than is required to swing an election when the swing states will hinge on a matter of a few percent. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,713 by mmoffitt 8/18/20 11:48:41 AM 8/18/20 11:48:41 AM Reply	That's because Democrats are liberal. Republicans are opposite. Not conservative, illiberal. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #435,741 by Ashton 8/18/20 8:25:11 PM 8/18/20 8:25:11 PM Reply	Not quite-Right enough: These are REACTIONARIES; the word ''conservative' ..was brutally murdered. ..and in the iggerant %large of the vox populi: the NON-distinction ''twixt the two feeds past word-associations, bolstering the present gigantic-LIEs in abundance. (I believe that just. THIS. misnomer. ... accounts for much of the entire ∑ Clusterfuck). cf. Confucius' splendid tiny essay on, Why Language Must Be Correct^® Him smarter than moi (but I'd make premeditated Language-murder a Capitol crime) --with serious years in Stir.
Post #435,681 by boxley 8/14/20 5:54:31 PM 8/14/20 5:54:31 PM Reply	well when you have to vote in NY NJ and florida, hard to do in person "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #435,683 by a6l6e6x 8/15/20 8:09:21 AM 8/15/20 8:09:21 AM Reply	And not in Scotland? :) Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #435,699 by mmoffitt 8/17/20 9:09:25 AM 8/17/20 9:09:25 AM Reply	YOU keep my ancestral home out of this! He doesn't even know what the people of Scotland are called! bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #435,725 by malraux 8/18/20 3:12:39 PM 8/18/20 3:12:39 PM Reply	DeJoy said they're postponing the changes until after the election Which is good. Now watch him get fired. :-P Unfortunately it's probably too much to ask to have them replace some of the machines for November at least. I'm not sure if the reports of them being smashed are accurate or not, but if so that's a huge wtf. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,734 by drook 8/18/20 3:37:46 PM 8/18/20 3:37:46 PM Reply	"Oops, did someone keep pulling sorting machines? Guess they didn't get the memo." -- Drew
Post #435,742 by Ashton 8/18/20 8:34:15 PM 8/18/20 8:34:15 PM Reply	(General Patton said that a bit more forcefully).
Post #435,753 by crazy 8/19/20 9:47:26 AM 8/19/20 9:47:26 AM Reply	Multiple reports of damage This article is a good launch point for the variety of issues. https://spokesman-recorder.com/2020/08/15/dismantling-the-u-s-postal-service/ 3 weeks backlog in Philadelphia. People are not getting their social security checks of which many are mailed, or their medication. And this is for the stuff that's arriving in the local PO for the local people. Due to the variety of rules he implemented before the mail sorting machines were yanked. I used to code software to produce labels. The rules are very exact for placement and quality of address. Those machines are finicky to start off with. When they are set up they are set up exactly. Every scanner they yanked (and there are many on a single line as they kick out the mail to each chute) has to be recalibrated. And these are not just barcode scanners. They are high-speed real-time OCR scanners.
Post #435,754 by drook 8/19/20 9:50:47 AM 8/19/20 9:50:47 AM Reply	Any idea what kind of manpower each one replaces? Or in other words, how many people would need to be hired full time to replace the capacity of one of these machines being taken out? -- Drew
Post #435,757 by crazy 8/19/20 11:36:20 AM 8/19/20 11:36:20 AM Reply	No Envelopes are flying by it far faster than any human could read and push a direction. So number one you have to slow the line to probably a hundredth of what it currently runs. At that point you'd have to multiply the size of the line to 100 times that line to even fit the people on.
Post #435,766 by scoenye 8/19/20 5:30:34 PM 8/19/20 5:30:34 PM Reply	Capacity is almost 10 pieces/second So Crazy's 100x scale is not too far off. Plus these run 24/7 so you're looking at about 300 people total (minus the 2 it takes to run the sorter.)
Post #435,777 by crazy 8/20/20 9:15:20 AM 8/20/20 9:15:20 AM Reply	What about database lookups and printing on the envelope? Isn't this also the stage that additional information will be printed as a barcode onto the envelope based on the full address as now figured out to the zip plus four level? This is so they can use less OCR machines at the later stages of SCF and then local post office distribution. Much cheaper more accurate laser barcode scanners at this point in the process. Multiplying manpower by thousands and slow down by thousands to actually have humans type this information into a database lookup and then press a button to print something on an envelope. We have reached the collapse of the postal system if anyone ever tries to revert to manpower for these machines.
Post #435,779 by drook 8/20/20 10:07:57 AM 8/20/20 10:07:57 AM Reply	You need to write a brief explainer I'm sure I'm not the only person here who knows someone with a bunch of Twitter followers. I want to share a short "Here's exactly what they're breaking, how bad it will screw things up, and how hard it will be to replace" because I suspect most people think no matter what Trump does we can just undo it when we vote in Biden. -- Drew
Post #435,786 by crazy 8/20/20 11:52:54 AM 8/20/20 11:52:54 AM Reply	I haven't cracked open my laltop in about a year All voice dictate on the phone with crappy editing. And right now I don't feel like being Trump's target. So I'll whine to a limited audience.
Post #435,797 by drook 8/20/20 2:28:32 PM 8/20/20 2:28:32 PM Reply	Consolidated and combined a few things This is what I want to share. What do you think? We’ve all seen the stories about how Trump is sabotaging the Post Office. But if you’re like me, you haven’t seen much detail of what the impact is. These are not changes that can be reversed quickly or cheaply when he leaves office. The changes he’s making, while not permanent, are going to take a long time to undo. The following is from a friend of mine who used to work with a high-volume Postal customer. They don’t want to get involved in the public debate, but if you want to dispute any of the facts, cite a source and not just “It doesn’t sound right.” --- This article is a good launch point for the variety of issues. https://spokesman-recorder.com/2020/08/15/dismantling-the-u-s-postal-service/ 3 weeks backlog in Philadelphia. People are not getting their social security checks of which many are mailed, or their medication. And this is for the stuff that's arriving in the local PO for the local people. Due to the variety of rules he implemented before the mail sorting machines were yanked. I used to code software to produce labels. The rules are very exact for placement and quality of address. Those machines are finicky to start off with. When they are set up they are set up exactly. Every scanner they yanked (and there are many on a single line as they kick out the mail to each chute) has to be re-calibrated. And these are not just barcode scanners. They are high-speed real-time OCR scanners. What kind of manpower does each one replace? There are two kinds of sorters (for letters). The first stage is where optical character recognition [OCR] reads the address and prints additional information as a barcode onto the envelope based on the full address as now figured out to the zip plus four level. The second stage are the Delivery Bar Code Sorters. I’ll address these first. Vice reported (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkyv4k/internal-usps-documents-outline-plans-to-hobble-mail-sorting): In May, the USPS planned to remove a total of 969 sorting machines out of the 4,926 it had in operation as of February for all types of letters and flat mail. The vast majority of them—746 out of 3,765 in use—were delivery bar code sorters (DBCS), the type that sort letters, postcards, ballots, marketing mail and other similarly sized pieces. But a subsequent document distributed to union officials in mid-June said 502 of those machines would be removed from facilities. On these, envelopes are flying by far faster than any human could read and push a direction. So number one you have to slow the line to probably a hundredth of what it currently runs. At that point you'd have to multiply the size of the line to 100 times that line to even fit the people on. Capacity is almost 10 pieces/second. Plus these run 24/7 so you're looking at about 300 new people total - minus the 2 it currently takes to run the sorter. Taking the 502 number, that means it would take roughly 150,000 employees to replace the capacity of these machines. Plus the space to house all those people and the new equipment. Because yes, even if you pull out the automated sorter, you’ll still need all the bins and tracks for the people to use to do the work. Now back to that first stage. They do the OCR and print the bar code so they can use less OCR machines at the later stages of SCF and then local post office distribution. Much cheaper more accurate laser barcode scanners at this point in the process. Multiplying manpower by thousands and slow down by thousands to actually have humans read and type this information into a database lookup, and then press a button to print something on an envelope. We have reached the collapse of the postal system if anyone ever tries to revert to manpower for these machines. -- Drew
Post #435,805 by crazy 8/20/20 3:03:30 PM 8/20/20 3:03:30 PM Reply	Does the job
Post #435,809 by drook 8/20/20 3:27:51 PM 8/20/20 3:27:51 PM Reply	Twatted https://twitter.com/DrewKime/status/1296527394912768000 -- Drew
Post #435,812 by malraux 8/20/20 3:44:14 PM 8/20/20 3:44:14 PM Reply	WAPO just came out with a similar thing, fewer numbers though https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/20/postal-service-mail-sorters-removals/ And here's another good one: https://apnews.com/4a3de5a041fe6353a4d055f866a1b62a - "Thousands of chicks arrive dead to farmers amid USPS turmoil" Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #435,761 by mmoffitt 8/19/20 4:22:38 PM 8/19/20 4:22:38 PM Reply	That equipment is impressive. I've only ever seen it once in operation in a mid-sized city's postal center and that was decades ago. I was working in the publishing business back then and was familiar with PC based OCR solutions which were in their infancy. I distinctly remember how awe struck I was after seeing the accuracy and speed of those machines in operation. If you were involved in the development of that stuff, my hat's off to you. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #435,772 by crazy 8/20/20 8:07:50 AM 8/20/20 8:07:50 AM Reply	I was on the supply side Largest junk mail printer in the world. Production plants in East Coast, West Coast, mid-country state. We had our own zip code at our plant. many many tractor trailers leaving and inserting our mail at various points in the postal stream. Which in turn meant following the rules perfectly. I learned about the ability to mail alligators and chickens in those days because I studied that god damn manual. So anyway, it was just paying attention to the development from the early days on and occasionally visiting places. While simultaneously doing our own OCR reader implementations on our own production lines. When I wasn't in the middle of that database project or putting together a rack of sun servers my boss would go tell me to wander the floor and make it better. I was the guy with the clipboard and a very large budget and a boss who loved technology and gave me toys to play with.
Post #435,846 by scoenye 8/21/20 7:45:57 AM 8/21/20 7:45:57 AM Reply	Dallas tried to put them back online - and failed https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/usps-reconnect-sorting-machines/index.html Yared Wonde, the president of the American Postal Workers Union's Dallas Area Local, told CNN that management at the Dallas processing and distribution center, which serves nearly all of Dallas, unsuccessfully tried to put back four delivery bar code sorter machines. DBCS machines make up the bulk of the mail sorting operation across USPS, handling envelopes which includes ballots heading to voters. The machines, which Wonde says were removed in July, cannot be put back into service because they are missing pieces. (emphasis mine) No clue if the pieces deliberately went missing or it that is just a consequence of taking something that large apart in order to move it. Also, while they stopped dismantling, the existing damage will remain: While Postmaster General Louis DeJoy may be suspending changes to postal service operations, it doesn't necessarily mean machines that had been removed will be put back in use, according to an email obtained by CNN. The email, sent hours after DeJoy's public suspension of changes on Tuesday, instructs postal workers not to reconnect any mail sorting machines that have previously been disconnected. "Please message out to your respective Maintenance Managers tonight," wrote Kevin Couch, a director of maintenance operations. "They are not to reconnect/reinstall machines that have been previously disconnected without approval from HQ Maintenance, no matter what direction they are getting from their plant manager."
Post #435,848 by drook 8/21/20 8:10:47 AM 8/21/20 8:10:47 AM Reply	Oopsie! -- Drew
Post #435,849 by crazy 8/21/20 9:09:52 AM 8/21/20 9:09:52 AM Reply	As I said Easy to take apart and really difficult to set up. Try to imagine the plant manager who actually wants to do the job and the maintenance department crippled him. Then he tells the maintenance department to put things back together. The maintenance department's main headquarters at Washington says you are not allowed to put anything back together. So they decide to do it anyway because they want to do their goddamn jobs and move the mail. The plant manager said to put it back. We'll try to put it back. Yay. All it takes is one MAGA hat wearing idiot in the maintenance department to hide a few pieces and nothing will work. A few pieces out of hundreds that they were supposed to track for the machines they yanked. Then they have to contact headquarters for part replacements and headquarters will not send anything. Game over.
Post #435,879 by Ashton 8/21/20 6:11:01 PM 8/21/20 6:11:01 PM Reply	Just heard: House gets a whack at D'Joy next week (gloves off, one hopes)

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