As I said in the preamble, my father was an English teacher.

Post #434,794 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 2:29:00 PM 6/25/20 2:29:00 PM Reply	As I said in the preamble, my father was an English teacher. Using "infer" instead of "imply" was a trigger for him. And, sadly or not, that's a trigger I inherited. It rings in my ears as loudly as, "John and me are going to the store." I'd say "John and me are going to the store" is far less wrong than using "inferred" in the context she did here. It's horrific in that she should know better. Her use of that word is stunningly wrong and spoiled an otherwise excellent performance in questioning the AG nominee. She was running through her vocabulary looking for a synonym to "suggested" and she inadvertently demonstrated that her vocabulary isn't as large as one might suspect and the meaning of some of the words in that vocabulary are not fully understood. That's less than inspiring. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,795 by drook 6/25/20 2:42:09 PM 6/25/20 2:42:09 PM Reply	That's a great endorsement The worst thing that you can say about her is that one time, during a high-pressure televised event, she used the wrong 5-letter word starting with "i" that are synonyms. -- Drew
Post #434,799 by malraux 6/25/20 3:15:32 PM 6/25/20 3:15:32 PM Reply	You're an odd duck, Mike. The stuff you get wound up about. And incorrectly, as Drew points out. Merriam-Webster disagrees with your argument here. And also as Drew says, if that's the worst thing you can say about her... Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #434,804 by Ashton 6/25/20 4:42:20 PM 6/25/20 4:42:20 PM Reply	Merriam-Webster recently admitted that: Yes, they Do make MIstreaks (too) (Too lazy to search just now for the money-quote, but I will) THIS is one such: Synonyms for imply allude, hint, indicate, infer, insinuate, intimate, suggest It is bogus once-and twice-removed. Just as Mike avers. As do I. (Maybe could get a gang to pile-on ..hmm). A) It is not a 'synonym' B) It is an 'antonym' C) for alleged-Lexicographer(s) to make such a confounding Error--is pretty-much inexcusable. But they're Human (oddly). Note too that: Infer is a passive-voice (which has implications..) Imply is an active-voice (which has implications..) The twain(?) do not mix ..if you're playing in amateur-Lexicographer street-races. Rest case.
Post #434,805 by drook 6/25/20 4:47:53 PM 6/25/20 4:47:53 PM Reply	Infer can be used active No, they aren't 1-for-1 replacements for the same idea. In use: He implied that all cops are racist. I inferred that he doesn't like cops. So you can make an inference based on an implication. But they really are so close phonetically, and so related logically, that mis-using one for the other in an off-the-cuff discussion is hardly proof of any glaring deficiency. -- Drew
Post #434,809 by Ashton 6/25/20 5:03:15 PM 6/25/20 5:12:48 PM Reply	Sorry, but.. [edited] Both sentences are themselves, "reports", in 'passive voice' re. 'events' ... that happened-already. Unless I'm missing something sub-tul-er. Still and all: there IS an Uncertainty Principle operative within Language Itself (as seems to mock/ blend-in? pursang-Physics/Math-theyselves (!?) Prolly Bertie could map this out in twenty? forty? pages, but I can't do-Mr. Kant-levels ..unless paid-in-advance. :^> But I'll buy your last ..unless someone opens a Switchblade, threatening Death or dith-shevelment PS: The 'Predicate ..'subjunctive-Case' in Engrish: opens up a lot of--sometimes-vital--'implications' when we try to write rilly-Exact statements {sigh} LANGUAGE is all we Have; sometimes it does create! or save-from! hideous Violence from all those Reptile-brainz-aflutter: Out There. Ergo: its POWER is giga-Tonnes beyond mere planet-destroying Bomb-things (as all derive from the Reptile-brainz-part). Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 05:12:48 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,815 by drook 6/25/20 8:32:00 PM 6/25/20 8:32:00 PM Reply	One of us doesn't know what "passive voice" means And I'm afraid it's you. :-P Active: He implied all cops are racist. Passive: The idea that all cops are racist was implied. Passive voice means that an action happened / happens to someone, rather than someone did the thing. That it's past-tense isn't relevant. Passive voice is frequently used to exonerate the guilty. Practical example: John Smith was involved in an officer-involved shooting. vs. A police officer shot and killed John Smith. (Example shamelessly stolen, and unconscionably condensed, from here. Go read it.) -- Drew
Post #434,818 by Ashton 6/25/20 11:01:26 PM 6/25/20 11:09:10 PM Reply	Mc Sweeneys.. unimaginable a few decades past.. Seemingly thay have applied the ~early-'90s techniques I first saw in a Brit-program headed by a (once) Wunderkind Host ... teaching at edge of that techno; "Knowledge": was part of the show-title. 'Twas there that I saw physics, math symbols automated (..thinking) ..Wow--had we Had That, why.. ... In that wow-demo the numerical/unit-sizes/colors! of variable-symbols altered on both sides of the essential [=] separator, as you inserted, what-Ifs? Algebra, Calculus, some partial-Differentials ..other nested-dependent-variables ... Grew or shrunk ..like here. McS takes the optics to Language (possibly inspired by? those 40-yo first examples I saw). Anyway I punt on atempting a better definition-set than the hasty stab; obviously: the teaching of (arcane-even) Language rules, habits and corrections via careful Academese-as-spoken: is superseded. (Worst case: many might well forget how-to? extemporaneously): craft some instructive-tale so as to kindle [only a small flicker of initial Class-interest] into ---> a roaring, Let's hear Moar! 40 :oTpy Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 11:05:40 PM EDT Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 11:09:10 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,820 by drook 6/25/20 11:40:40 PM 6/25/20 11:40:40 PM Reply	I think you're saying ... you liked it? :-) My favorite line: ... the past exonerative tense, so named because culpability is impossible when actions no longer exist. Though taking just an excerpt impels me to mis-quote the movie Mozart: There are just as many words, Majesty, as are required. Neither more nor less. -- Drew
Post #434,823 by Ashton 6/26/20 12:48:04 AM 6/26/20 12:48:04 AM Reply	That line is indeed, Boffo :-0 And yess, these folk appear to be exemplars about applying the effective science Demo(s) sanely to the more-difficult on n-levels: daily Ranguage events. And clearly, even more progress could find many (who thought.. "eh? it's too cerebral!) to get woke-up and smellin' the (Rose-coloured) phrases much more-better. All as promps wondering just how many other sites might also be toiling? in the fields of Disinformation -vs- de-Fanging that scourge on the asshole of humanity. Concur that they are striving for some new Clarity? (without any snark like: recall' Captain Clarity?') wayback when dinosaurs roamed ..just-beyond the perimeter of IWE. Thanks for the Intro! it's now in my 'https' listicle, stored just off-screen-right: a one-line-piece of TextEdit protruding as, 'SAVE SAVE". [Beats bookkeeping, and last I heard, that's the only word with two-'k's] :-þ
Post #434,812 by malraux 6/25/20 6:54:16 PM 6/25/20 6:57:04 PM Reply	Addressed here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer#usage-1 tl;dr: infer to mean 'indicate' is fine, but it has been tarred with the same feathers as 'suggest/hint'. Even that is a relatively recent development compared to how long both meanings have been in use. Sir Thomas More is the first writer known to have used both infer and imply in their approved senses in 1528 (with infer meaning "to deduce from facts" and imply meaning "to hint at"). He is also the first to have used infer in a sense close in meaning to imply (1533). Both of these uses of infer coexisted without comment until some time around the end of World War I. Since then, the "indicate" and "hint or suggest" meanings of infer have been frequently condemned as an undesirable blurring of a useful distinction. The actual blurring has been done by the commentators. The "indicate" sense of infer, descended from More's use of 1533, does not occur with a personal subject. When objections arose, they were to a use with a personal subject (which is now considered a use of the "suggest, hint" sense of infer). Since dictionaries did not recognize this use specifically, the objectors assumed that the "indicate" sense was the one they found illogical, even though it had been in respectable use for four centuries. The actual usage condemned was a spoken one never used in logical discourse. At present the condemned "suggest, hint" sense is found in print chiefly in letters to the editor and other informal prose, not in serious intellectual writing. The controversy over the "suggest, hint" sense has apparently reduced the frequency with which the "indicate" sense of infer is used. Also, if it was good enough for Shakespeare: "this doth infer the zeal I had to see him" Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. Edited by malraux June 25, 2020, 06:57:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,814 by Ashton 6/25/20 8:17:21 PM 6/25/20 8:17:21 PM Reply	Well Done! (I'll nearly-always bow to successfully pellucid argumentation :-) [Drat.. I'd thought it was 1527, when More wasn't yet {fatally..} a thorn-in-side re. allegiance to Der KInk] --new research says I was off 9 months and 4 days; mea culpa.. ;^> Must correct Otrona /CPM floppy, by June 31.

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