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New Watching Kamala Harris during the Kavanaugh confirmation clinched it for me.
And going after Biden during the debates showed she knows how to speak truth to power.

Getting the black vote out, especially the women, is important too.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New It's essential to energise the youth vote
But that's the easy part. I can get The Yoot riled up on Twitbook/Snapface/InstaChat without too much effort. The challenge is to take that energy, and get it into the fucking polling booth.

If you convince an older person of your argument, you've got their vote. Because old people vote. They vote in fair weather or foul, irrespective of whether they had a Fortnite match tonight, despite the fact they feel like shit, or whatever. Old people vote.

Young people, well, not so much. They're easy to convince. But getting them into the booth - that's the real work.

So, Kamala Harris. Appeal to the youth, the black vote, the woman vote. Yeah, it's a bit (a lot) tokenistic. Viva realpolitik! And then do the work to get those convinced-but-not-voting young voters to vote.
New Unarguable that.. a Sqreaker all the --> way to ... the last hours.{sob}
New Rachel Bitecofer says things are so polarized in the USA now that...
what wins elections is getting people energized to vote, especially those who haven't voted before. Trying to convert people on the other side is a waste of resources.

That's why Obama won twice, and one of the reasons why Hillary's popular vote win wasn't enough to win the Electoral College.

https://www.niskanencenter.org/bitecofer-post-primary-update/

She's persuasive. It'll be interesting to see how well her model holds up this time.

Cheers,
Scott.
New The numbers don't lie
It's been all about turnout for at least a couple decades. The only reason they can't confirm further back than that is they didn't have sufficiently granular polling.
--

Drew
New I like Kamala too, but...
I have a long-time AA friend in Ohio who says he cannot support her because of her record as a prosecutor in California. I don't know how widely held that view is among others. Her campaign fell apart before South Carolina but even before then she wasn't particularly strong there.

dick_nixon on Twitter doesn't like her and generally seems to think that she's a lightweight when it comes to politics.

https://twitter.com/dick_nixon/status/1275498116511383552

That tweet has a short clip of Colbert interviewing her. She really should have had a much better answer, and it's a little (but just a little) concerning to me that she didn't.

All that said, she's young, she's smart, and she knows how to learn and get better. If Biden picks her, I'm sure she'll be a credit to his administration. I don't think it's a given that she's going to drive AA turnout more than he will on his own - she's got a complicated history.

Cheers,
Scott.
New But who's better?
I see this a lot with the Dems. So-and-so is problematic, they've got this or that history, they're not "weighty" enough, whatever.

Newsflash: this is every candidate for every political party in the world, ever.

Pick the least worst, and get on with it. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and all that.

ETA: there are parallels with the Labour Party in the UK, only instead of picking someone who could win, the Party (due in no small part to an unwise decision to allow the broader Party membership to effectively control the outcome, effectively nullifying the ability of MPs to influence the outcome; MPs like to win, hence are more likely to pick a winning leader) selected the ideologically pure candidate, Jeremy Corbyn - a man who has achieved very little in his 34 years in parliament, having served on no committees, held no high office during Labour's 13-year run in the early 2000s, written no books, etc. - who went on to contest and lose two general elections; the first against the weakest incumbent government in recent history, and the second by a margin not seen since 1935.

To howls of anguish from the purity ponies, Keir Starmer is now leader. He is a barrister, formerly the Director of Public Prosecutions, speaks well, eviscerates Johnson at PMQs every Wednesday, looks good in a suit, has good hair, doesn't have a shit beard, etc. Result: he's polling well above Johnson. Like, ten to fifteen points above.

Bernie Bros would be wise to reflect on this.
Expand Edited by pwhysall June 25, 2020, 04:53:37 AM EDT
New dick_nixon likes Warren.
dick_nixon is just some guy, but he makes a decent point now and then.

Your points are well taken. As I said, it's not a big deal, but she should do better. It was an easily predictable, and reasonable question. Candidates go after each other at debates, then come together, all the time. There was nothing out-of-bounds about her comments, nor Biden's responses, during the debate. Politics ain't beanbag. They need to be able to explain themselves and talk about how their views have changed over time, etc. Laughing and saying, several times, "it was a DEBATE" wasn't good enough.

I don't know who Biden is going to pick, and who he picks probably won't have a huge impact on the outcome in the presidential race. It might, or might not, affect enthusiasm for the rest of the races - who knows.

I like Warren too, but I think she can and will do much more important work in the Senate.

re Corbyn - Sometimes the party matters much, much more than the candidate. The UK is going to continue to suffer needless pain because it didn't see that. If you believe Tony Jay on Balloon-Juice, Corbyn was being undercut by Blarites (and the press) and others who would rather destroy the Labour party than see him win. Dunno. But regardless, tens of thousands have died under BoJo that probably wouldn't have died under Labour.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: dick_nixon likes Warren.
If you believe Tony Jay on Balloon-Juice, Corbyn was being undercut by Blarites (and the press) and others who would rather destroy the Labour party than see him win. Dunno. But regardless, tens of thousands have died under BoJo that probably wouldn't have died under Labour.

Heh, that's the opposite of what actually happened. Corbyn's enablers (a pressure group called Momentum, plus the purity ponies in the Party membership at large, whose jobs didn't depend on an effective leader) kept him there despite there being literally years of evidence that he was shit at every single aspect of being Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. Party before country, writ large.

And I don't have any confidence that a Corbyn government would have had a long-term better outcome. I think they'd have locked up so hard that the economy tanked completely, and whilst there would be short-term wins in terms of COVID-19 deaths, millions more would have shitty, shorter lives, because poverty is a motherfucker.
New I like bottoms
Keisha Lance Bottoms
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New She's certainly a lightweight when it comes to the English language (see below)
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New There was one thing about her questioning I found profoundly troubling.
She actually used the word "inferred" where she should have said "implied." Perhaps it is a consequence of being raised by an English teacher but with that one utterance she lost my support completely. Haven't we had enough Presidents who have failed to master their native tongues? She was a prosecutor for Christ's sake. She, better than most, should understand that words matter. Everything else aside, her inability to use the correct English language words during an important questioning of a witness (again! she was a prosecutor ffs!) left me absolutely stone cold.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New My God! That's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard!
--

Drew
New I KNOW!!1
New If we've learned nothing from Covid, we should have learned that incompetence kills.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Your standard for incompetent is ... not useful? Yeah, not useful.
--

Drew
New Are you really that thick? Or are you just playing.
Her career was predicated on her having mastered the English language. She's not done it to date. It's not a stretch to say her failure to do so may have something to do with all the controversy surrounding her record as prosecutor.

Want a political example? "We will bury you". Remember who said that? If you say "Krushchev" guess again. He didn't say that. Why do you think he did? Because the idiot translator mistranslated. Words matter. Particularly in a court of law or in government. Failing to master even your primary language should be disqualifying.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Yes, words matter ... but *those* words are the ones you're hung up on?
--

Drew
New As I said in the preamble, my father was an English teacher.
Using "infer" instead of "imply" was a trigger for him. And, sadly or not, that's a trigger I inherited. It rings in my ears as loudly as, "John and me are going to the store." I'd say "John and me are going to the store" is far less wrong than using "inferred" in the context she did here.

It's horrific in that she should know better. Her use of that word is stunningly wrong and spoiled an otherwise excellent performance in questioning the AG nominee. She was running through her vocabulary looking for a synonym to "suggested" and she inadvertently demonstrated that her vocabulary isn't as large as one might suspect and the meaning of some of the words in that vocabulary are not fully understood. That's less than inspiring.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New That's a great endorsement
The worst thing that you can say about her is that one time, during a high-pressure televised event, she used the wrong 5-letter word starting with "i" that are synonyms.
--

Drew
New You're an odd duck, Mike.
The stuff you get wound up about.

And incorrectly, as Drew points out. Merriam-Webster disagrees with your argument here.

And also as Drew says, if that's the worst thing you can say about her...
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Merriam-Webster recently admitted that: Yes, they Do make MIstreaks (too)
(Too lazy to search just now for the money-quote, but I will)
THIS is one such:
Synonyms for imply
allude, hint, indicate, infer, insinuate, intimate, suggest


It is bogus once-and twice-removed. Just as Mike avers. As do I. (Maybe could get a gang to pile-on ..hmm).
A) It is not a 'synonym'
B) It is an 'antonym'
C) for alleged-Lexicographer(s) to make such a confounding Error--is pretty-much inexcusable.
But they're Human (oddly).

Note too that: Infer is a passive-voice (which has implications..)
Imply is an active-voice (which has implications..)
The twain(?) do not mix ..if you're playing in amateur-Lexicographer street-races.

Rest case.
New Infer can be used active
No, they aren't 1-for-1 replacements for the same idea. In use:

He implied that all cops are racist.

I inferred that he doesn't like cops.

So you can make an inference based on an implication. But they really are so close phonetically, and so related logically, that mis-using one for the other in an off-the-cuff discussion is hardly proof of any glaring deficiency.
--

Drew
New Sorry, but.. [edited]
Both sentences are themselves, "reports", in 'passive voice' re. 'events' ... that happened-already.
Unless I'm missing something sub-tul-er.

Still and all: there IS an Uncertainty Principle operative within Language Itself (as seems to mock/ blend-in? pursang-Physics/Math-theyselves (!?)
Prolly Bertie could map this out in twenty? forty? pages, but I can't do-Mr. Kant-levels ..unless paid-in-advance. :^>

But I'll buy your last ..unless someone opens a Switchblade, threatening Death or dith-shevelment



PS: The 'Predicate ..'subjunctive-Case' in Engrish: opens up a lot of--sometimes-vital--'implications' when we try to write rilly-Exact statements {sigh}

LANGUAGE is all we Have; sometimes it does create! or save-from! hideous Violence from all those Reptile-brainz-aflutter: Out There.
Ergo: its POWER is giga-Tonnes beyond mere planet-destroying Bomb-things (as all derive from the Reptile-brainz-part).
Expand Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 05:12:48 PM EDT
New One of us doesn't know what "passive voice" means
And I'm afraid it's you. :-P

Active: He implied all cops are racist.

Passive: The idea that all cops are racist was implied.

Passive voice means that an action happened / happens to someone, rather than someone did the thing. That it's past-tense isn't relevant.

Passive voice is frequently used to exonerate the guilty. Practical example:

John Smith was involved in an officer-involved shooting.

vs.

A police officer shot and killed John Smith.

(Example shamelessly stolen, and unconscionably condensed, from here. Go read it.)
--

Drew
New Mc Sweeneys.. unimaginable a few decades past..
Seemingly thay have applied the ~early-'90s techniques I first saw in a Brit-program headed by a (once) Wunderkind Host ... teaching at edge of that techno; "Knowledge": was part of the show-title. 'Twas there that I saw physics, math symbols automated (..thinking) ..Wow--had we Had That, why.. ...

In that wow-demo the numerical/unit-sizes/colors! of variable-symbols altered on both sides of the essential [=] separator, as you inserted, what-Ifs?
Algebra, Calculus, some partial-Differentials ..other nested-dependent-variables ... Grew or shrunk ..like here.

McS takes the optics to Language (possibly inspired by? those 40-yo first examples I saw). Anyway I punt on atempting a better definition-set than the hasty stab; obviously: the teaching of (arcane-even) Language rules, habits and corrections via careful Academese-as-spoken: is superseded.

(Worst case: many might well forget how-to? extemporaneously): craft some instructive-tale so as to kindle [only a small flicker of initial Class-interest] into
---> a roaring, Let's hear Moar!

40

:oTpy
Expand Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 11:05:40 PM EDT
Expand Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 11:09:10 PM EDT
New I think you're saying ... you liked it? :-)
My favorite line*:
... the past exonerative tense, so named because culpability is impossible when actions no longer exist.


* Though taking just an excerpt impels me to mis-quote the movie Mozart: There are just as many words, Majesty, as are required. Neither more nor less.
--

Drew
New That line is indeed, Boffo :-0
And yess, these folk appear to be exemplars about applying the effective science Demo(s) sanely to the more-difficult on n-levels: daily Ranguage events.
And clearly, even more progress could find many (who thought.. "eh? it's too cerebral!) to get woke-up and smellin' the (Rose-coloured) phrases much more-better.

All as promps wondering just how many other sites might also be toiling? in the fields of Disinformation -vs- de-Fanging that scourge on the asshole of humanity.
Concur that they are striving for some new Clarity? (without any snark like: recall' Captain Clarity?') wayback when dinosaurs roamed ..just-beyond the perimeter of IWE.

Thanks for the Intro! it's now in my 'https' listicle, stored just off-screen-right: a one-line-piece of TextEdit protruding as, 'SAVE SAVE".
[Beats bookkeeping, and last I heard, that's the only word with two-'k's] :-þ
New Addressed here:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer#usage-1

tl;dr: infer to mean 'indicate' is fine, but it has been tarred with the same feathers as 'suggest/hint'. Even that is a relatively recent development compared to how long both meanings have been in use.

Sir Thomas More is the first writer known to have used both infer and imply in their approved senses in 1528 (with infer meaning "to deduce from facts" and imply meaning "to hint at"). He is also the first to have used infer in a sense close in meaning to imply (1533). Both of these uses of infer coexisted without comment until some time around the end of World War I. Since then, the "indicate" and "hint or suggest" meanings of infer have been frequently condemned as an undesirable blurring of a useful distinction. The actual blurring has been done by the commentators. The "indicate" sense of infer, descended from More's use of 1533, does not occur with a personal subject. When objections arose, they were to a use with a personal subject (which is now considered a use of the "suggest, hint" sense of infer). Since dictionaries did not recognize this use specifically, the objectors assumed that the "indicate" sense was the one they found illogical, even though it had been in respectable use for four centuries. The actual usage condemned was a spoken one never used in logical discourse. At present the condemned "suggest, hint" sense is found in print chiefly in letters to the editor and other informal prose, not in serious intellectual writing. The controversy over the "suggest, hint" sense has apparently reduced the frequency with which the "indicate" sense of infer is used.


Also, if it was good enough for Shakespeare: "this doth infer the zeal I had to see him"
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Expand Edited by malraux June 25, 2020, 06:57:04 PM EDT
New Well Done! (I'll nearly-always bow to successfully pellucid argumentation :-)
[Drat.. I'd thought it was 1527, when More wasn't yet {fatally..} a thorn-in-side re. allegiance to Der KInk]
--new research says I was off 9 months and 4 days; mea culpa.. ;^>

Must correct Otrona /CPM floppy, by June 31.
New Am I to imply from your comment
that you’ll sit this one out if she’s on the ticket?

cordially,
New Not at all.
Notwithstanding her failure to master the English language, I'd still prefer her over the Senator from MBNA. And, obviously, either to Trump.

Reasonable minds may differ on the importance of proper language use, but by damn, I'm really hoping to live long enough to see someone with at least a second-grader's mastery of the English language occupy the White House.

When they were in grammar school, I would have sharply corrected either of my daughters for the blunder Kamala committed (mind, neither was likely to make this halting error since around the second grade). I'd hope that anyone running to be the leader of the free world, let alone someone who'd clearly interrogated countless witnesses, would have at least a second grader's command of the English language.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Whoosh
--

Drew
New Re: Not at all.
Your own use of English is far from fault-free, so I would counsel that whilst within the confines of the glass house, you'd be wise to put the stones down.
New Am I a prosecutor or running for high office? No.
AND for all my mistyping and occasional grammatical errors, I have *NEVER* confused "imply" and "infer". That is jarring.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Ahem
Look up a bit and see if you noticed.
--

Drew
New I took that as a joke.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Correctly.
New It's not. It's a slip of the tongue.
This is a very small, shitty hill upon which to die.
New I'm not trying to convince anyone.
I've already conceded it won't have any impact on how I vote. It's just jarring and more than a little disappointing. Worse, I haven't even seen it pointed out by anyone. Language dies in darkness.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New The word has been used that way for 400 years
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New As has a certain song, "I Wish I Was in Dixie, Hurrah! Hurrah!", er ;^>
..It ain't just La Donna ẻt Mobile ..when whole tribes re-wash their brainz with any /old new Slogan which goes-all-viral.

[or a new-Autocrat, lives out-out a personal C-grade soap-opera, via bull-horn].
Cuth: don't leave Lock-down without it [!] ..as my Mater might have opined.
New So, you did not sense that she had second thoughts after she said it?
Did you see the video with sound or just read her words?
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New You're trolling us, aren't you? Well done.
New I see what you did there.
New Oh, ffs.
Really? That's the bone of contention? A misplaced word?
New politically prosecuting unwinnable cases to get elected is a little worse
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New ..now that was Cute truthiness :-) ..try to Go-->there ... more often(?)
New (Always a pleasure) to acknowledge a cohort ..in One's Outlier-Club, oft despised by masses :-)
(That Stuart Chase pubished his magnum-Opus in the year of my birth), thence the accident of some {forgotten-event} led me to,
The Tyranny of Words--I count as seminal Event in my matriculation into whatever sentience ever, finally sunk-in.
{That he had written this epistle in-service-to a young relative is, I surmise} a clue re his care in Using those 'Words' artfully)
--while progressively blending-in new nuance, meant to get the girl cogitating on the already imparted material. Easier said than done, that.)

aka I share your dudgeon over what only seems mere nit-pickery if taken en passant, as in quip-ifying.
To wander about in the daily Maya--unclear about the importance of Implication-made -vs- Inference-taken,
is a base canard
[and if that phrase is unfamiliar to some: it means ~a Lying tale]--something everyone would recognize
today as, indistinguishable from any DJT utterance--Ever]. Even his 'Base' is a Base-base canard, I wot.



(Should we next...find selves on local-Barricades? I shall send along the *Phlogiston recipe forthwith; never leave home without it)
..when tilting at such Windmills as pwn the framing to every-idiot-assembled, someplace.
* Akin but Different, look-up Thermite sometime, eh?

--Still seeking a superlative beyond merely, Ludicrous (Times :-)
     Time for the Veepstakes! - (malraux) - (55)
         if Joe coughs out, who has the chops for a second term win should be the answer -NT - (boxley)
         Simplest take, then.. - (Ashton) - (1)
             At this point only one thing matters - (drook)
         Watching Kamala Harris during the Kavanaugh confirmation clinched it for me. - (a6l6e6x) - (48)
             It's essential to energise the youth vote - (pwhysall) - (3)
                 Unarguable that.. a Sqreaker all the --> way to ... the last hours.{sob} -NT - (Ashton)
                 Rachel Bitecofer says things are so polarized in the USA now that... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     The numbers don't lie - (drook)
             I like Kamala too, but... - (Another Scott) - (5)
                 But who's better? - (pwhysall) - (3)
                     dick_nixon likes Warren. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         Re: dick_nixon likes Warren. - (pwhysall)
                     I like bottoms - (boxley)
                 She's certainly a lightweight when it comes to the English language (see below) -NT - (mmoffitt)
             There was one thing about her questioning I found profoundly troubling. - (mmoffitt) - (37)
                 My God! That's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard! -NT - (drook) - (17)
                     I KNOW!!1 -NT - (Another Scott) - (16)
                         If we've learned nothing from Covid, we should have learned that incompetence kills. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                             Your standard for incompetent is ... not useful? Yeah, not useful. -NT - (drook) - (14)
                                 Are you really that thick? Or are you just playing. - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                     Yes, words matter ... but *those* words are the ones you're hung up on? -NT - (drook) - (12)
                                         As I said in the preamble, my father was an English teacher. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                             That's a great endorsement - (drook)
                                             You're an odd duck, Mike. - (malraux) - (9)
                                                 Merriam-Webster recently admitted that: Yes, they Do make MIstreaks (too) - (Ashton) - (8)
                                                     Infer can be used active - (drook) - (5)
                                                         Sorry, but.. [edited] - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                             One of us doesn't know what "passive voice" means - (drook) - (3)
                                                                 Mc Sweeneys.. unimaginable a few decades past.. - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                                     I think you're saying ... you liked it? :-) - (drook) - (1)
                                                                         That line is indeed, Boffo :-0 - (Ashton)
                                                     Addressed here: - (malraux) - (1)
                                                         Well Done! (I'll nearly-always bow to successfully pellucid argumentation :-) - (Ashton)
                 Am I to imply from your comment - (rcareaga) - (14)
                     Not at all. - (mmoffitt) - (12)
                         Whoosh -NT - (drook)
                         Re: Not at all. - (pwhysall) - (9)
                             Am I a prosecutor or running for high office? No. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                 Ahem - (drook) - (2)
                                     I took that as a joke. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                         Correctly. -NT - (rcareaga)
                                 It's not. It's a slip of the tongue. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                     I'm not trying to convince anyone. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                         The word has been used that way for 400 years -NT - (malraux) - (1)
                                             As has a certain song, "I Wish I Was in Dixie, Hurrah! Hurrah!", er ;^> - (Ashton)
                                         So, you did not sense that she had second thoughts after she said it? - (a6l6e6x)
                         You're trolling us, aren't you? Well done. -NT - (Another Scott)
                     I see what you did there. -NT - (Ashton)
                 Oh, ffs. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                     politically prosecuting unwinnable cases to get elected is a little worse -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                         ..now that was Cute truthiness :-) ..try to Go-->there ... more often(?) -NT - (Ashton)
                 (Always a pleasure) to acknowledge a cohort ..in One's Outlier-Club, oft despised by masses :-) - (Ashton)
         for Susan Rice - (lincoln) - (2)
             Quite a good Atta-girl! pitch (mayhap 'She' needs to be darker hued..?) considering The Times. -NT - (Ashton)
             She's more than qualified. - (a6l6e6x)

And Bob's your uncle...
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